Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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fozzieskem
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Wed May 15, 2019 8:13 pm

DaveO wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:43 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:15 pm
And so yet again the clueless Mrs May will bring the bill back to be voted down again in June,how many times do we have to go through this
Latest news/rumour is Labour might abstain which would see it pass. An abstention would lead to the bill getting a second reading, with the key vote effectively postponed until MPs voted on the amended bill at third reading. That means MP's could vote on amendments from a custom union to a second vote or whatever but it does mean Labour would be trying to craft its view of Brexit via amendments rather than through an agreement with the government on a deal.

EDIT: Now they are saying they won't be abstaining. Clear as mud as ever.
Dave the only thing clear is May will,if Bercow let’s her will try and push this bill through by hook or by crook

DaveO
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Thu May 16, 2019 3:32 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:13 pm
DaveO wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:43 pm
fozzieskem wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:15 pm
And so yet again the clueless Mrs May will bring the bill back to be voted down again in June,how many times do we have to go through this
Latest news/rumour is Labour might abstain which would see it pass. An abstention would lead to the bill getting a second reading, with the key vote effectively postponed until MPs voted on the amended bill at third reading. That means MP's could vote on amendments from a custom union to a second vote or whatever but it does mean Labour would be trying to craft its view of Brexit via amendments rather than through an agreement with the government on a deal.

EDIT: Now they are saying they won't be abstaining. Clear as mud as ever.
Dave the only thing clear is May will,if Bercow let’s her will try and push this bill through by hook or by crook
I think the bill is now a dead duck after today's events where she has agreed to set a date for her departure. There is no way on earth those wanting to replace her, which seem to be at least a dozen in number, will vote for her deal and the DUP definitely won't now as they will see the new leader as one who will deliver for them.

The trouble is of course whoever wins, it's Groundhog Day. The problems and issues that have dogged "the simplest deal in history" are still there and the parliamentary arithmetic is still the same.

Johnson has inevitably thrown his name in the ring already and if he wins I think you might see quite a few Tories defect to ChangeUK. They need another so called compromise candidate but I am not sure what one of those is given they will have to be a hard brexiter to stand a chance with the wider Tory membership. The only way they will get one is if there is no need to consult them as there wasn't with May.


Wiganer Ted
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Mon May 20, 2019 8:20 pm

Nandy is talking nonsense.
She quotes Peter Kelner who gave stats on the 2016 referendum. Which he did.
So why didn't she quote his latest figures?
They told us that due to the demographics with the older Leave voters dying and new young and Remain people joining the voting register the Leave majority has disappeared. It vanished on January 19th 2019 and from that date there is a Remain majority in the UK from the 2016 referendum. The gap in favour of Remain is widening each day by well over 1300 .

A poll also suggested Labour voters are now 80% Remain having risen from 66% as people have changed their mind. They might not have in Wigan but they have in Wales and plenty other places. The classic case was Sunderland where after Nissan decided not to build their latest car the area went from 60% Leave to 55% Remain. People there changed their mind.

Nandy is a high profile Remain MP in a Leave constituency. Her scribe is simply quoting Labour Party policy. Our MP quotes the same and she's a Remain MP in a Remain constituency who would never ever think of representing her voters. She, like Nandy, is doing nothing else but representing her Party's policy.

DaveO
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Mon May 20, 2019 8:53 pm

I read the tripe written by Nandy and the thing that is missing from her article is how she thinks Labour can bring both sides together.

Says absolutely nothing about how this will be done.

There is a far better article in the Guardian today about the Tories ignoring their remain voters

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... SApp_Other

The same kind of thing applies to Labour and Nandy’s article is a prime example of this. She says Labour needs to win in Leave seats ignoring they also need to win in Remain seats in a general election.

She goes on about not having tried to implement the result in good faith. WTF does that mean? May’s deal? Labour’s deal which isn’t on the table? Hard Brexit (which is what some Leave voters think is the only Brexit)?

Her article attracted over 2500 comments and most are negative with many pointing out if Labour are complicit in imposing any form of Brexit without a vote they are toast.


DaveO
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Wed May 22, 2019 2:07 pm

Well with a nod to the title of this topic, "Why we will be worse off through Brexit" step forward British Steel.

Back on 2016 the UK govt vetoed an EU plan to raise tariffs on cheap imported Chinese steel.

In 2019 its order book has dried up because orders are placed long term i.e. for delivery in the future and customers are not placing any because they don't know what tariffs they may face to import the product.

It's also suffered due to increased cost due to the falling pound, you know that falling pound that according to Brexiteers makes exporters like British Steel more competitive.

Still every cloud has a silver lining. It's proved that Economists can get predictions right. The trouble is in this case the one who is being proved right is arch Brexiteer economist Patrick Minford who said an inevitable consequence of Brexit was the end of UK manufacturing industry.

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed May 22, 2019 4:23 pm

He was/is correct on most things "Macro Economic" should be listened to more often. He was right about the Coal Industry too.
Eg coal mine near Manchester with a direct feed into Power Station (Walkden Way. Got their coal from Vietnam cheaper than cheaper than the coal mine immediately connected to them. Same with Chinese Steel produced cheaper than Btitish Steel. That's Macro Economics in action Dave 🤓🍷cheers. He also said we will prosper post Brexit! By we I mean theUK

British Steel is a Swedish/Turkish equitable company. Nowt to do with Brexit. We've not heard the last of this who bought this Co for £1

DaveO
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 am

SJ wrote:He was/is correct on most things "Macro Economic" should be listened to more often. He was right about the Coal Industry too.
Eg coal mine near Manchester with a direct feed into Power Station (Walkden Way. Got their coal from Vietnam cheaper than cheaper than the coal mine immediately connected to them. Same with Chinese Steel produced cheaper than Btitish Steel. That's Macro Economics in action Dave ImageImagecheers. He also said we will prosper post Brexit! By we I mean theUK

British Steel is a Swedish/Turkish equitable company. Nowt to do with Brexit. We've not heard the last of this who bought this Co for £1
The deal struck by Tata to sell the part of the business to Greybull to create British Steel (BS) for £1 is not the issue here however much you would like to deflect the debate to that. The issue is why BS has gone into administration which is as a direct consequence of Brexit.

As to Minford’s economics, I am sure the 25,000 who will lose their jobs if BS goes under will be enjoying their new found prosperity. The previous victims of this policy are still waiting for the promised to land to materialise and given it never did, ironically voted to inflict the same misery on others by voting to leave the EU.

Saying this is all just macro economics this ignores the reality which is the Chinese weren’t producing steel cheaper because they are more efficient but because they were subsidising it and were therefore dumping it. That is why the EU wanted to raise tariffs in 2016 which they could do without breaking WTO rules (because it was being dumped) but this was vetoed by Cameron who was at the time trying to suck up to Chinese.

In 2019 UK exporters such as BS are not able to fill order books because foreign importers don’t know what tariffs they will face so they aren’t buying and contrary to Brexiteer economic theory, the weak pound which is a direct result of Brexit is shafting manufacturing due higher costs of raw materials.

Of course the arch right wingers do not care. Rees-Mogg bangs on about cheaper food imports but all that was will do is kill off UK Agriculture which is something else Minford predicts.

It’s a bankrupt policy and treats the working population as disposable and as history has shown does not deliver the promised prosperity. You seem pretty OK with that by the looks of it.




ian.birchall
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ian.birchall » Thu May 23, 2019 5:33 am

To all you unbelievers. Thursday May 23rd 2019.
Another chance to get it right and vote Brexit today. :twisted:
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Mike » Thu May 23, 2019 9:28 am

ian.birchall wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 5:33 am
To all you unbelievers. Thursday May 23rd 2019.
Another chance to get it right and vote Brexit today. :twisted:
If Brexit party gets less than 50% of vote share ,then we should cancel the whole thing. It no longer has a majority.

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