Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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SJ
Posts: 1144
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:19 pm

What a silly comment to make. So your a sychologist Are you?

DaveO
Posts: 14125
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:11 am

SJ wrote:
jobo wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:06 pm
[quote=Wigan_forever1985 post_id=462712 time=<a href="tel:1559642459">1559642459</a> user_id=3365]
Genuine question for the Brexiteers

Lets just say in theory Brexit goes ahead and we leave the EU

What would it take for you to feel you got it wrong and it was a mistake - or no matter how bad things were would you stand by it being a good decision?

To counter for me as a remainer the same question flipped

I would accept it was the correct decision if i saw prices fall (or remain steady as all prices rise eventually), my travelling throughout Europe wasn't servery impacted and my current rights were not regressed (working time directive etc).

But what would be the point as a brexiteer you feel its was a bad decision?
There's a quote by Mark Twain that says
"It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they've been fooled"

I doubt that any fanatical brexiteer would ever admit they got it wrong, even if they were drowning in chlorinated chicken.
I would like you to characterise "fanatical Brexiteer"
I voted to leave deal or no deal that was my choice made without reservation or cohesion of any kind
Clorinated chicken was never a consideration Not then or now. We won the referendum. Nothing to be fanatical about. I wasn't fooled by anyone fanaticism never entered into the equation. In fact the only fanaticism is manifested by the antics of all those who didn't and still don't accept the result. In fact the above posters to which this post is a response are the fanatics. I only speak for myself. I can't speak for any other Brexiteer. ImageCheers[/quote]

You just posted you voted to leave deal or no deal. Anyone who is prepared to leave with no deal as you obviously are is a “fanatical brexiteer”.

No deal would break the Good Friday Agreement. That alone would be disastrous. Now I know lots of Brexit supporters dismiss the issue, or believe the tripe spouted by Johnson about facilitated customs arrangements or come up with their own tin pot solutions based on pure fantasy but that is all they are. Fantasy.

Yet here we are with so called responsible politicians suggesting it is a viable outcome as they vie for the votes of a bunch of geriatric Tory members so they can be PM and here you are saying you think it is fine. It’s just unbelievable.

Fanatical brexiteers are also those who have suddenly decided they don’t care what the consequences of Brexit are. Not bothered about having to accept US food standards, nor manufacturing and agriculture being wiped out. NHS sold off? Not a problem. They behave as some sort of Thatcherite on steroids because they have decided they are immune to the consequences and can afford to see such things happen because they won’t be affected. Or so they think.

The reason they are dismissive of all this is because for them it is about sovereignty or politics meaning they live in this fantasy world where they think if we leave the EU we can do what we like, will negotiate fantastic trade deals only accepting the terms we want because we the UK will be an independent country. The thought we will have to compromise our sovereignty much more than we do as members of the EU to get anywhere doesn’t enter their heads.

Does this sound like anyone you know?


SJ
Posts: 1144
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:59 am

Good post Dave. Always heavy going.
Simply put. Your arguement is fundamentally INDUCTIVE whereas mine is DEDUCTIVE so I'm not putting forward an argument as such. I'm saying in effect History will provide answers as to the subject title above. You may well be shown to be right. Time will tell. 😀🍷cheers!

As an aside Dave. I always read your posts about our RL club with interest your criticisms re its management and coaching are always good for thought. But on a much more serious level You seem to be less critical of the "workings" of the EU relative to our Domestic politics etc. It amuses me. Just an idle thought mate🤓

Wandering Warrior
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:34 pm

Can we not bring back flower power?
Peace man!! :D
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

Wandering Warrior
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:17 pm

So Farage thinks his party should have a place at the negotiating table for Brexit?
Perhaps Keith Lemon would be a good call as well if we are going to be silly over negotiating the burden that the referendum has brought?
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

SJ
Posts: 1144
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:39 am

DaveO wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:11 am
SJ wrote:
jobo wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:06 pm
[quote=Wigan_forever1985 post_id=462712 time=<a href="tel:1559642459">1559642459</a> user_id=3365]
Genuine question for the Brexiteers

Lets just say in theory Brexit goes ahead and we leave the EU

What would it take for you to feel you got it wrong and it was a mistake - or no matter how bad things were would you stand by it being a good decision?

To counter for me as a remainer the same question flipped

I would accept it was the correct decision if i saw prices fall (or remain steady as all prices rise eventually), my travelling throughout Europe wasn't servery impacted and my current rights were not regressed (working time directive etc).

But what would be the point as a brexiteer you feel its was a bad decision?
There's a quote by Mark Twain that says
"It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they've been fooled"

I doubt that any fanatical brexiteer would ever admit they got it wrong, even if they were drowning in chlorinated chicken.
I would like you to characterise "fanatical Brexiteer"
I voted to leave deal or no deal that was my choice made without reservation or cohesion of any kind
Clorinated chicken was never a consideration Not then or now. We won the referendum. Nothing to be fanatical about. I wasn't fooled by anyone fanaticism never entered into the equation. In fact the only fanaticism is manifested by the antics of all those who didn't and still don't accept the result. In fact the above posters to which this post is a response are the fanatics. I only speak for myself. I can't speak for any other Brexiteer. ImageCheers
You just posted you voted to leave deal or no deal. Anyone who is prepared to leave with no deal as you obviously are is a “fanatical brexiteer”.

No deal would break the Good Friday Agreement. That alone would be disastrous. Now I know lots of Brexit supporters dismiss the issue, or believe the tripe spouted by Johnson about facilitated customs arrangements or come up with their own tin pot solutions based on pure fantasy but that is all they are. Fantasy.

Yet here we are with so called responsible politicians suggesting it is a viable outcome as they vie for the votes of a bunch of geriatric Tory members so they can be PM and here you are saying you think it is fine. It’s just unbelievable.

Fanatical brexiteers are also those who have suddenly decided they don’t care what the consequences of Brexit are. Not bothered about having to accept US food standards, nor manufacturing and agriculture being wiped out. NHS sold off? Not a problem. They behave as some sort of Thatcherite on steroids because they have decided they are immune to the consequences and can afford to see such things happen because they won’t be affected. Or so they think.

The reason they are dismissive of all this is because for them it is about sovereignty or politics meaning they live in this fantasy world where they think if we leave the EU we can do what we like, will negotiate fantastic trade deals only accepting the terms we want because we the UK will be an independent country. The thought we will have to compromise our sovereignty much more than we do as members of the EU to get anywhere doesn’t enter their heads.

Does this sound like anyone you know?
[/quote]
Know ?..No. But it does remind me of you ..... an incorrigible "Dogmatist" these past 3 Years+😊

Wandering Warrior
Posts: 3244
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:13 pm

The reason fanatical brexiteers are not botherd about the ramifications of their actions is pretty obvious to me given the demographic of the leavers.
Their grandkids will boycott tending their graves cos they're a burden!?😀
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

DaveO
Posts: 14125
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:37 pm

SJ wrote:Good post Dave. Always heavy going.
Simply put. Your arguement is fundamentally INDUCTIVE whereas mine is DEDUCTIVE so I'm not putting forward an argument as such. I'm saying in effect History will provide answers as to the subject title above. You may well be shown to be right. Time will tell. ImageImagecheers!

As an aside Dave. I always read your posts about our RL club with interest your criticisms re its management and coaching are always good for thought. But on a much more serious level You seem to be less critical of the "workings" of the EU relative to our Domestic politics etc. It amuses me. Just an idle thought mateImage
I think the workings of our domestic politics have actually been exposed as seriously lacking as we have moved through the process following the referendum. Henry VIII powers, threats to suspend parliament to force a no deal Brexit are examples of a failed system IMO. It’s archaic. I used to think the fact we didn’t have a written constitution was quite a good thing because whenever you formally say what rights people do have you can implicitly (intentionally or not) limit the rights they have.

The EU seems positively modern by comparison.

As to inductive v deductive how do you work that out? If we remain everything stays the same so the argument to remain is deductive. Leaving is a leap in the dark so what happens is at best is inductive except I would not even credit the arguments to leave as pointing toward a possible (positive) conclusion never mind a firm one.

One thing I have noticed in your recent posts though is this sort of deflection into the philosophical. Given up in the face of reality trying to argue Brexit won’t cost people their livelihoods have we? How indulgent ;)

DaveO
Posts: 14125
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:39 pm

SJ wrote:
DaveO wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:11 am
SJ wrote: There's a quote by Mark Twain that says
"It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them they've been fooled"

I doubt that any fanatical brexiteer would ever admit they got it wrong, even if they were drowning in chlorinated chicken.
I would like you to characterise "fanatical Brexiteer"
I voted to leave deal or no deal that was my choice made without reservation or cohesion of any kind
Clorinated chicken was never a consideration Not then or now. We won the referendum. Nothing to be fanatical about. I wasn't fooled by anyone fanaticism never entered into the equation. In fact the only fanaticism is manifested by the antics of all those who didn't and still don't accept the result. In fact the above posters to which this post is a response are the fanatics. I only speak for myself. I can't speak for any other Brexiteer. ImageCheers
You just posted you voted to leave deal or no deal. Anyone who is prepared to leave with no deal as you obviously are is a “fanatical brexiteer”.

No deal would break the Good Friday Agreement. That alone would be disastrous. Now I know lots of Brexit supporters dismiss the issue, or believe the tripe spouted by Johnson about facilitated customs arrangements or come up with their own tin pot solutions based on pure fantasy but that is all they are. Fantasy.

Yet here we are with so called responsible politicians suggesting it is a viable outcome as they vie for the votes of a bunch of geriatric Tory members so they can be PM and here you are saying you think it is fine. It’s just unbelievable.

Fanatical brexiteers are also those who have suddenly decided they don’t care what the consequences of Brexit are. Not bothered about having to accept US food standards, nor manufacturing and agriculture being wiped out. NHS sold off? Not a problem. They behave as some sort of Thatcherite on steroids because they have decided they are immune to the consequences and can afford to see such things happen because they won’t be affected. Or so they think.

The reason they are dismissive of all this is because for them it is about sovereignty or politics meaning they live in this fantasy world where they think if we leave the EU we can do what we like, will negotiate fantastic trade deals only accepting the terms we want because we the UK will be an independent country. The thought we will have to compromise our sovereignty much more than we do as members of the EU to get anywhere doesn’t enter their heads.

Does this sound like anyone you know?
Know ?..No. But it does remind me of you ..... an incorrigible "Dogmatist" these past 3 Years+Image[/quote]

Well as you no doubt guessed I was talking about you. ;) You are in there somewhere.

SJ
Posts: 1144
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:34 am

Dave I've always accepted re the above topic that you could be correct whereas you have argued I and my kind are fanaticsDon't forget that time will tell wether we made a massive error or otherwise. That philosophy as you call it doesn't sound fanatical to me. Perhaps I'm wrong about that to. I ussually am. 😎🍷

Ps Deal or no deal wasn't on the ballot form I seem to remember.

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