Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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ian.birchall
Posts: 3086
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:42 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ian.birchall » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:52 pm

DaveO wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:20 am
ian.birchall wrote:
morley pie eater wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:30 pm


:D :D :D
Well you all know my feelings on Brexit but to keep the fires burning I should tell you that I ignored the Salford v Giants game last night so that I could attend the Conservative hustings in York.
For my money Boris came over as bouncing with enthusiasm for getting out, Jeremy although claiming to be as strongly in favour of Leave as Boris apart from a delay of a 'few days if we are nearly there' came across to me as half hearted about Brexit so needless to say my cross is going into the Boris box.
Again many of you will know that I am really, really! a sad politics geek, and with my time in France every year (other than this year yet as I am still recovering from a medical fracture of my femur in January) I I took special interest in a comment from Macron that the EU had to have its own no deal plan because if they didn't ' the other side ' would know that the EU were always ready to compromise. Sound familiar??
If you are a sad politics geek how can you not have worked out Boris Johnson is an untrustworthy racist liar? Given it is a matter of record he is just that it’s not even a matter for debate.

The only thing he’s enthusiastic about is Boris. He will tell you what he likes to win your vote.

I am not suggesting you vote for Hunt by the way. You are stuck between a rock and a hard pace there. Both are in the promise you what you want hear mode.

Sadly it’s rather disappointed you are so enthusiastic about such a racist liar. It does not reflect well on you and that has nothing to with party politics or Brexit but your support this odious man.
I hope you understand DaveO that it is difficult to class me as a racist when my favourite woman is a Sikh, Gopinder would never accept that.
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

ian.birchall
Posts: 3086
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:42 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ian.birchall » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:15 pm

Wandering Warrior wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:18 pm
ian.birchall wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:15 pm
morley pie eater wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:30 pm


:D :D :D
Well you all know my feelings on Brexit but to keep the fires burning I should tell you that I ignored the Salford v Giants game last night so that I could attend the Conservative hustings in York.
For my money Boris came over as bouncing with enthusiasm for getting out, Jeremy although claiming to be as strongly in favour of Leave as Boris apart from a delay of a 'few days if we are nearly there' came across to me as half hearted about Brexit so needless to say my cross is going into the Boris box.
Again many of you will know that I am really, really! a sad politics geek, and with my time in France every year (other than this year yet as I am still recovering from a medical fracture of my femur in January) I I took special interest in a comment from Macron that the EU had to have its own no deal plan because if they didn't ' the other side ' would know that the EU were always ready to compromise. Sound familiar??
Was Macron there giving him a leg up?
I'd imagine the EU will be made up with the Gaffmeister in charge!! :lol:
Furthermore, seeing as you've had a job done, did you ask Johnson was the NHS safe in his hands when we get all this money back from leaving?
I have always been both grateful and thankful for all three of my hip replacements, 2004, 2017 and January 2019. However I have never felt it is sensible to continue to pour more and more billions into an unreformed NHS, a bucket with a hole in it dear Liza. All through my working career as an accountant I worked for companies where there was a continuous programme of staff reductions. The financial pressures on the NHS could be eased, the money saved being used to properly fund social care for the elderly, if there was a gentle but continuous programme to reduce the approximately 700k staff included in the 1.3 million total employed who have no medical qualification or function, 5% a year in any other business I would suggest is quite normal.
As a political point I could tell you that in the candidates question and answer session on Thursday Johnson was quite specific when he said that it was time for Parliament to realise that the political arguments over funding the costs of social care would only be overcome by a cross party, Tories Labour Lib Dem ( who are neither liberal or democratic by the way) SNP AND Plaid commission which he would form in the early months of his Premiership. Let's wait and see if he follows that promise up shall we?
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

SJ
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:34 pm

Good post Ian. Your definitely right about theLiberal Democrats.
Dave O's remarks on "Democracy" is an argumentum adsurdum" why? Because a referendum is not an end in itself. It has a point,a purpose It informs the wishes of the Voters and knowing what those wishes are and ignoring them irrespective of wether the Ref was advisory or otherwise is the very essence the undemocratic.

morley pie eater
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Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by morley pie eater » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:19 pm

Ian, your point about trimming staff and investing savings in social care makes perfect sense to me as an anyone-but-tory voter. (Don't get me started on Andrea Jenkyns!)

The problem I have is that the tories cut NHS funding, not to pay for social care, but to fund tax cuts for the well off. And your Mr Johnson has promised more cuts.

Caboosegg
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Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:42 pm

So leave won the none binding referendum on EU membership.

Why does that seem to now be that people voted to leave with No deal?

Surely if this is all the will of the people we should get a vote on going with the offered deal or leaving with no deal? Maybe with facts about what each means rather than lies plastered on a bus by our soon to be PM.
RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

SJ
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:31 pm

We voted LEAVE. Full stop.
Re Boris bus. See my tongue in cheek post re Dewars whisky. A bit of fun with a serious point. Look you might just see it. Re the so called only advisory Ref. You owe us your understanding of DEmOCRACY
What's Democratic about its ok if the results realises the Government stance but not if it doesn't ? There's a conundrum for you mate!

ian.birchall
Posts: 3086
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:42 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ian.birchall » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:29 pm

morley pie eater wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:19 pm
Ian, your point about trimming staff and investing savings in social care makes perfect sense to me as an anyone-but-tory voter. (Don't get me started on Andrea Jenkyns!)

The problem I have is that the tories cut NHS funding, not to pay for social care, but to fund tax cuts for the well off. And your Mr Johnson has promised more cuts.
Could be a lot worse. You could have had the Ice Pixie, aka Mrs Balls, now busy trying to overthrow the referendum vote. What is Ed doing now, no recent BBC programmes, I have a faint idea he is doing something in America?
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

SJ
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:56 pm

Cut down on the pies Morley and you'll be fine. Anyway, living in Yorkshire is nice. Lovely areas to visit. Re pies. The best steak pies came from Pimblets St. Helens. Small but delist. Otherwise Warburtons of Bolton. I think WW would agree with Warburtons.

Wiganer Ted
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:06 pm

Laughable about the Leave winning the 2016 referendum. 17.4m voted to Leave. A majority of 1.27m was the majority to Leave. The 1.27m majority no longer exists and has been overtaken by Remain. The longer time goes on the greater the numbers for Remain.

As for the campaign and vote.
We were told that we would be better off outside the EU as we wouldn't pay another penny to the EU from the day we left.
Free Trade with the EU would continue as they would be begging to have a FTA as they need us far more than we need them. The German Car manufacturers would insist upon it.
Once we stopped Free Movement immigration would drop as we could better chose the immigrants we need.
Ireland would be unaffected as the EU Free Trade Agreement would be a seamless transfer of power.
None of the reasons we were given for leaving the EU have turned out to be true.
Of course we are now told we knew what we were voting for including No Deal. Which again is untrue.

Anyone who still believes we will be better off Remaining in the EU are told what we want is undemocratic. Those who want another referendum are told another democratic vote will be undemocratic.
Brexit has split the country and done untold damage to our International reputation. We had a Foreign Secretary who was a national embarrassment. The world thinks he's a fool and a buffoon. Now he is about to become Prime Minister. We are a Parliamentary democracy and thankfully Parliament has rejected this nonsense. Hopefully Parliament will kill off No Deal starting tomorrow. With around Tory 30 MP's it is suggested they could vote to put an end to No Deal. There are then those Tories who once Johnson is elected PM will resign the Conservative Party whip. We all know where that is going.
Hopefully an end to Brexit.

ian.birchall
Posts: 3086
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 9:42 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by ian.birchall » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:59 am

Wiganer Ted wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:06 pm
Laughable about the Leave winning the 2016 referendum. 17.4m voted to Leave. A majority of 1.27m was the majority to Leave. The 1.27m majority no longer exists and has been overtaken by Remain. The longer time goes on the greater the numbers for Remain.

As for the campaign and vote.
We were told that we would be better off outside the EU as we wouldn't pay another penny to the EU from the day we left.
Free Trade with the EU would continue as they would be begging to have a FTA as they need us far more than we need them. The German Car manufacturers would insist upon it.
Once we stopped Free Movement immigration would drop as we could better chose the immigrants we need.
Ireland would be unaffected as the EU Free Trade Agreement would be a seamless transfer of power.
None of the reasons we were given for leaving the EU have turned out to be true.
Of course we are now told we knew what we were voting for including No Deal. Which again is untrue.

Anyone who still believes we will be better off Remaining in the EU are told what we want is undemocratic. Those who want another referendum are told another democratic vote will be undemocratic.
Brexit has split the country and done untold damage to our International reputation. We had a Foreign Secretary who was a national embarrassment. The world thinks he's a fool and a buffoon. Now he is about to become Prime Minister. We are a Parliamentary democracy and thankfully Parliament has rejected this nonsense. Hopefully Parliament will kill off No Deal starting tomorrow. With around Tory 30 MP's it is suggested they could vote to put an end to No Deal. There are then those Tories who once Johnson is elected PM will resign the Conservative Party whip. We all know where that is going.
Hopefully an end to Brexit.
Dream on. 😂
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

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