Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Got anything else on your mind that isn't about the Warriors? If you do, this is the place to post.
medlocke
Posts: 8144
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:57 am
Contact:

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by medlocke » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:34 am

ian.birchall wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:59 am
Wiganer Ted wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:06 pm
Laughable about the Leave winning the 2016 referendum. 17.4m voted to Leave. A majority of 1.27m was the majority to Leave. The 1.27m majority no longer exists and has been overtaken by Remain. The longer time goes on the greater the numbers for Remain.

As for the campaign and vote.
We were told that we would be better off outside the EU as we wouldn't pay another penny to the EU from the day we left.
Free Trade with the EU would continue as they would be begging to have a FTA as they need us far more than we need them. The German Car manufacturers would insist upon it.
Once we stopped Free Movement immigration would drop as we could better chose the immigrants we need.
Ireland would be unaffected as the EU Free Trade Agreement would be a seamless transfer of power.
None of the reasons we were given for leaving the EU have turned out to be true.
Of course we are now told we knew what we were voting for including No Deal. Which again is untrue.

Anyone who still believes we will be better off Remaining in the EU are told what we want is undemocratic. Those who want another referendum are told another democratic vote will be undemocratic.
Brexit has split the country and done untold damage to our International reputation. We had a Foreign Secretary who was a national embarrassment. The world thinks he's a fool and a buffoon. Now he is about to become Prime Minister. We are a Parliamentary democracy and thankfully Parliament has rejected this nonsense. Hopefully Parliament will kill off No Deal starting tomorrow. With around Tory 30 MP's it is suggested they could vote to put an end to No Deal. There are then those Tories who once Johnson is elected PM will resign the Conservative Party whip. We all know where that is going.
Hopefully an end to Brexit.
Dream on. 😂
You've got to love Uncle Teds dreamland, He doesn't realize that disgruntled Remainers are changing their minds in the thousands and are now wishing they'd voted leave

User avatar
Wigan_forever1985
Posts: 5191
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:41 am

Imagine you were on trial for murder and there was a jury of 100

The prosecution tell the jury that there was a murder weapon with your found at your house and that there is CCTV of you at the scene of the murder

The evidence is slightly suspect but in the end 48 found you innocent and 52 found you guilty so you were found guilty and sentenced

If then it turned out there was absolutely no murder weapon found at the scene and the CCTV didn't actually exist im pretty sure you would want a re-trial.

If facts change then decisions made on them should be void thats just common sense
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

medlocke
Posts: 8144
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:57 am
Contact:

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by medlocke » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:22 am

Just because I'm bored. :D

I recall it said LET'S fund the NHS on the side of the infamous Brexit bus, Not we WILL fund the NHS

Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make SUGGESTIONS about what you and someone else should do.

Will is a modal verb used to talk about what is going to happen in the future, especially things that you are certain about or things that are planned

Suggestion, an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The End ;)

User avatar
Wigan_forever1985
Posts: 5191
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:10 am

medlocke wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:22 am
Just because I'm bored. :D

I recall it said LET'S fund the NHS on the side of the infamous Brexit bus, Not we WILL fund the NHS

Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make SUGGESTIONS about what you and someone else should do.

Will is a modal verb used to talk about what is going to happen in the future, especially things that you are certain about or things that are planned

Suggestion, an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The End ;)
you've missed a key word though meds it said "instead" after

It said "We send the eu 350 million a week, lets fund our NHS instead"

I would argue that 'Let us' can also be a request for permission from a group of people. In context of this example this meaning makes more sense as this is a campaign run by groups of people who are meant to be at core acting in the interest of the public. The "instead" infers that this is a like for like swap

Regardless of the semantics on grammar it was a reckless statement easily open to misinterpretation and was a core reason many voted Leave.
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

SJ
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:29 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:10 am
[quote=medlocke post_id=465439 time=<a href="tel:1562577740">1562577740</a> user_id=3583]
Just because I'm bored. :D

I recall it said LET'S fund the NHS on the side of the infamous Brexit bus, Not we WILL fund the NHS

Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make SUGGESTIONS about what you and someone else should do.

Will is a modal verb used to talk about what is going to happen in the future, especially things that you are certain about or things that are planned

Suggestion, an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The End ;)
you've missed a key word though meds it said "instead" after

It said "We send the eu 350 million a week, lets fund our NHS instead"

I would argue that 'Let us' can also be a request for permission from a group of people. In context of this example this meaning makes more sense as this is a campaign run by groups of people who are meant to be at core acting in the interest of the public. The "instead" infers that this is a like for like swap

Regardless of the semantics on grammar it was a reckless statement easily open to misinterpretation and was a core reason many voted Leave.
[/quote]
Meds your wasting your time as am I

What we say goes way over their heads or they try and undermine semantics ie the meaning of words insofar as we're concerned and introduce their own meanings which needless to say reflect a certain intellect😄

SJ
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:53 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:10 am
medlocke wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:22 am
Just because I'm bored. :D

I recall it said LET'S fund the NHS on the side of the infamous Brexit bus, Not we WILL fund the NHS

Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make SUGGESTIONS about what you and someone else should do.

Will is a modal verb used to talk about what is going to happen in the future, especially things that you are certain about or things that are planned

Suggestion, an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The End ;)
you've missed a key word though meds it said "instead" after

It said "We send the eu 350 million a week, lets fund our NHS instead"

I would argue that 'Let us' can also be a request for permission from a group of people. In context of this example this meaning makes more sense as this is a campaign run by groups of people who are meant to be at core acting in the interest of the public. The "instead" infers that this is a like for like swap

Regardless of the semantics on grammar it was a reckless statement easily open to misinterpretation and was a core reason many voted Leave.
Perhaps you would have preferred
"As well as" instead of "instead"😄😄😄

Wandering Warrior
Posts: 3271
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:26 pm

ian.birchall wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:15 pm
Wandering Warrior wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:18 pm
ian.birchall wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:15 pm


Well you all know my feelings on Brexit but to keep the fires burning I should tell you that I ignored the Salford v Giants game last night so that I could attend the Conservative hustings in York.
For my money Boris came over as bouncing with enthusiasm for getting out, Jeremy although claiming to be as strongly in favour of Leave as Boris apart from a delay of a 'few days if we are nearly there' came across to me as half hearted about Brexit so needless to say my cross is going into the Boris box.
Again many of you will know that I am really, really! a sad politics geek, and with my time in France every year (other than this year yet as I am still recovering from a medical fracture of my femur in January) I I took special interest in a comment from Macron that the EU had to have its own no deal plan because if they didn't ' the other side ' would know that the EU were always ready to compromise. Sound familiar??
Was Macron there giving him a leg up?
I'd imagine the EU will be made up with the Gaffmeister in charge!! :lol:
Furthermore, seeing as you've had a job done, did you ask Johnson was the NHS safe in his hands when we get all this money back from leaving?
I have always been both grateful and thankful for all three of my hip replacements, 2004, 2017 and January 2019. However I have never felt it is sensible to continue to pour more and more billions into an unreformed NHS, a bucket with a hole in it dear Liza. All through my working career as an accountant I worked for companies where there was a continuous programme of staff reductions. The financial pressures on the NHS could be eased, the money saved being used to properly fund social care for the elderly, if there was a gentle but continuous programme to reduce the approximately 700k staff included in the 1.3 million total employed who have no medical qualification or function, 5% a year in any other business I would suggest is quite normal.
As a political point I could tell you that in the candidates question and answer session on Thursday Johnson was quite specific when he said that it was time for Parliament to realise that the political arguments over funding the costs of social care would only be overcome by a cross party, Tories Labour Lib Dem ( who are neither liberal or democratic by the way) SNP AND Plaid commission which he would form in the early months of his Premiership. Let's wait and see if he follows that promise up shall we?
Yeh let's see if he follows up his comments, his past record doesn't provide much evidence of anything substantial ever being done, ask that Brit in prison in Iran as an example!?
The staff cuts in the NHS, would you have that at the coal face?
Interesting you'd use the cash saved to fund elderly social care? Nowt to do with the fact you'll need it pretty soon is it?
Otherwise you are alright and others in the future can whistle? Which of course is typical of the Tory party way!!
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

Wandering Warrior
Posts: 3271
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:09 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:30 pm

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:10 am
medlocke wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:22 am
Just because I'm bored. :D

I recall it said LET'S fund the NHS on the side of the infamous Brexit bus, Not we WILL fund the NHS

Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make SUGGESTIONS about what you and someone else should do.

Will is a modal verb used to talk about what is going to happen in the future, especially things that you are certain about or things that are planned

Suggestion, an idea or plan put forward for consideration.

The End ;)
you've missed a key word though meds it said "instead" after

It said "We send the eu 350 million a week, lets fund our NHS instead"

I would argue that 'Let us' can also be a request for permission from a group of people. In context of this example this meaning makes more sense as this is a campaign run by groups of people who are meant to be at core acting in the interest of the public. The "instead" infers that this is a like for like swap

Regardless of the semantics on grammar it was a reckless statement easily open to misinterpretation and was a core reason many voted Leave.
But there's loads of remainers want to leave now despite what the opinion polls say?
And let's not mention the age demograhic with the flower fertilizers!! :lol:
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

morley pie eater
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by morley pie eater » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:28 pm

(Because I'm bored.)

We tend to argue about "facts" when Brexit is a big unknown - it's impossible to "know" if we'll be better off or worse off in future.

The truth is that we make our minds up according to what best fits our narrative.

Here's my best attempt to explain why I'm a remainer. This is not to try and persuade you that I'm right, but simply to explain my pov.

The main political issues and choices facing the UK, in my view, are how to manage an advanced economy in a digital world. I accept that capitalism has out-performed centrally controlled economies over the period since WW2. But, given free rein, capitalism best serves capitalists and neglects the majority. ("There's no such thing as society" as someone once said.)

Since 2010 austerity has been used to cut taxes for the well off, cut corporation tax etc, whilst reducing spending* on NHS, social care, benefits, police, prisons, education, armed forces and much more. (*in real terms)

I believe that we should remain a capitalist economy, but that government's job is to represent all the people. To do this they should recognise that unrestrained capitalism will inevitably lead to abuses and fail to benefit society.

Amazon, Google, Uber and others benefit from the government's investment in education, transport, health care etc. Why shouldn't they contribute a reasonable proportion of their massive profits to general taxation?

The EU has slowly begun to get to grips with this issue. The UK alone (possibly a UK reduced to England and Wales alone), will be hopelessly outmuscled trying to regulate these mega-companies.

Furthermore, people like Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Hunt, Truss and many others, are idealogically committed to a laisser-faire approach. This includes much more privatisation of the NHS and other government services, despite the appalling track record of privatising in prisons, education, rail etc over the past 40 years.

See this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -unchained

And don't say "it's just the usual Guardian stuff." The article quotes from what these people have written, and there's much more, like Hunt's 2005 paper on privatising NHS services.

Both Corbyn and Tory leavers want out because they want freedom to deregulate or over-regulate.

I'm not awfully keen on either option, hence I want to "Let the people decide" in a fully democratic 2nd referendum.

SJ
Posts: 1194
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:48 pm

You say don't mention the Gaurdian so I won't Its a left wing paper that just churns out Socialist tripe anyway.
You obviously forgotten the years Labour were in power😜
Last edited by SJ on Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply