Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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Wintergreen
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wintergreen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:06 pm

Wiganer Ted wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 am
After all the publicity yesterday, by late last night it was obvious to the tv commentators the enormous task Johnson faces in getting anything about Brexit through Parliament.
By Friday next week his majority could be down to one. It wasn't said last night but to me all that appointing and sacking MP's he will have added to his list of enemies.
When the Vote of No Confidence comes along Tory MP's won't need to resign the Party Whip now with that small a majority all they'll have to do is abstain to ensure Johnson and Brexit fails.

I still can't work out whether he will wait for the VoNC and an election or go for a referendum. TV and radio people say an election for the Tories if they haven't delivered Brexit will be a disaster as the Brexit lot will trounce them with the Brexit voters. An election could see Johnson lose both the GE and also his own seat.
With a referendum whatever the result he will still be PM and the Tories still in power. If there were a large Remain majority then the Brexit lot would be finished but the Tories would just be damaged.
I think his strategy is something like:

1. Dig heels in, leave on 31 October with no deal.
2. Corbyn will be forced to back remain by this point (bad Tory deal and all that etc etc)
3. Call GE. Portray Corbyn as "remoaner" and appeal to Brexit Party supporters "See what I did etc"

Essentially trying to unite the Leave vote behind the Conservatives, and split remain with the rest.

All very well but the people will suffer.

The "working classes", many of which voted Leave, will suffer most.

As a "one nation" Tory, if you will, I'm not happy with that.

Caboosegg
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Caboosegg » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:23 pm

ian.birchall wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:22 pm
Jeremy Hunt, what a fool! Offered Defence Secretary and tosses the toys out of the pram claiming it is a 'demotion '
Ignoring the fact that as Defence Secretary he would get to play with all the exciting stuff the army has, tanks, artillery etc etc. Big boys toys.
During the hustings he was making great play of the fact that he understood the need for more defence spending rising from our current fiddled 2% up to 3% of GDP, America 4%, Germany 1.2% leeching on NATO, and the fact that he came from a military family with his father finishing up as an Admiral.
Obviously I made the correct decision in voting for Boris.
I liked your post until you ended with you voted for Boris 😂
RL's biggest issue is the constant negativity of its own fans.

support verb [ (ENCOURAGE)

"to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want him, her, or it to succeed"

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:53 am

Wintergreen wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:06 pm
Wiganer Ted wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:18 am
After all the publicity yesterday, by late last night it was obvious to the tv commentators the enormous task Johnson faces in getting anything about Brexit through Parliament.
By Friday next week his majority could be down to one. It wasn't said last night but to me all that appointing and sacking MP's he will have added to his list of enemies.
When the Vote of No Confidence comes along Tory MP's won't need to resign the Party Whip now with that small a majority all they'll have to do is abstain to ensure Johnson and Brexit fails.

I still can't work out whether he will wait for the VoNC and an election or go for a referendum. TV and radio people say an election for the Tories if they haven't delivered Brexit will be a disaster as the Brexit lot will trounce them with the Brexit voters. An election could see Johnson lose both the GE and also his own seat.
With a referendum whatever the result he will still be PM and the Tories still in power. If there were a large Remain majority then the Brexit lot would be finished but the Tories would just be damaged.
I think his strategy is something like:

1. Dig heels in, leave on 31 October with no deal.
2. Corbyn will be forced to back remain by this point (bad Tory deal and all that etc etc)
3. Call GE. Portray Corbyn as "remoaner" and appeal to Brexit Party supporters "See what I did etc"

Essentially trying to unite the Leave vote behind the Conservatives, and split remain with the rest.

All very well but the people will suffer.

The "working classes", many of which voted Leave, will suffer most.

As a "one nation" Tory, if you will, I'm not happy with that.
This is how i see it too

Boris has played a blinder really, he didnt go for leadership when DC stepped down because he knew the brexit wagon he helped push in motion was a terrible idea so he disappeared into hiding for a bit. He knows Brexit will be a disaster - even Farage has openly stated he accepts we will be probably be worse off following brexit and his exact words were "what price freedom?".

So he's let May try and work out a deal that everyone knows is pretty impossible to make good and once all the avenues have been exhausted and now people are just sick of the whole thing and want it over with he's turned up again. He's angled it so the only pressure he has is making brexit happen people have long since stopped caring about the type of deal.

So now we have an even more dangerous situation were he will literally do anything to push this through (see him suggesting suspending parliament before it was closed as an option)
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

Wiganer Ted
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:12 pm

Suspending Parliament is no longer an answer.
Labour have to go for a No Confidence Vote late September or very early Oct as if Johnson loses he doesn't need to do anything for two weeks when he either goes for another VoNC or allows Corbyn the opportunity to form a Gov't.
To avoid a "No Deal" exit from the EU there has either to be a change in the law or a change of Gov't.
Too late for a change of law maybe but if there's a GE and the result is before 31st Oct then the new Gov't can avoid a "No Deal".

medlocke
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by medlocke » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:26 pm

Wiganer Ted wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Suspending Parliament is no longer an answer.
Labour have to go for a No Confidence Vote late September or very early Oct as if Johnson loses he doesn't need to do anything for two weeks when he either goes for another VoNC or allows Corbyn the opportunity to form a Gov't.
To avoid a "No Deal" exit from the EU there has either to be a change in the law or a change of Gov't.
Too late for a change of law maybe but if there's a GE and the result is before 31st Oct then the new Gov't can avoid a "No Deal".
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

morley pie eater
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by morley pie eater » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:58 pm

I'm amazed by the length and detail of your speculation about Johnson's plan - you've obviously given it more thought than he has!

Fwiw, my guess is that he knows he won't get a deal from the EU, but will blame them. He also knows (I could well be giving him too much credit here) that he can't get a majority in parliament.

So it will be a general election. Either because of a vote of no confidence (blame Corbyn & Lib Dems), or "let's show them Johnny Foreigners", or both. Farage will be given a Lordship for withdrawing the Brexit party. Johnno wins election, does deal similar to Treeza's but sells it as a great achievement - just like the Aussie-style points system will bring as many immigrants as before, but be sold as taking control of our borders.

Wiganer Ted
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:17 pm

Meds is great, he still thinks we left the EU without a deal on March 29th.
Please don't anyone tell him.

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Mike
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Mike » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:35 pm

Wiganer Ted wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:17 pm
Meds is great, he still thinks we left the EU without a deal on March 29th.
Please don't anyone tell him.

He's definitely a remainer. You can just tell. His trolling is half hearted at best!

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Fujiman
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Fujiman » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:36 pm

morley pie eater wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:58 pm
I'm amazed by the length and detail of your speculation about Johnson's plan - you've obviously given it more thought than he has!

Fwiw, my guess is that he knows he won't get a deal from the EU, but will blame them. He also knows (I could well be giving him too much credit here) that he can't get a majority in parliament.

So it will be a general election. Either because of a vote of no confidence (blame Corbyn & Lib Dems), or "let's show them Johnny Foreigners", or both. Farage will be given a Lordship for withdrawing the Brexit party. Johnno wins election, does deal similar to Treeza's but sells it as a great achievement - just like the Aussie-style points system will bring as many immigrants as before, but be sold as taking control of our borders.
Don't think he would withdraw the BP but heard him on Radio 4 ( i think but may have been LBC) saying that he may target labour remain seats in a deal with the tories.
This quote is no longer available because the person is deemed not fit enough to provide it!

thegimble
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by thegimble » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:42 pm

Mike wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:35 pm
Wiganer Ted wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:17 pm
Meds is great, he still thinks we left the EU without a deal on March 29th.
Please don't anyone tell him.

He's definitely a remainer. You can just tell. His trolling is half hearted at best!
When the reply is full of smilies you know that his brain has gone numb. Just like Brexit until the General Election early next year.

Boris Johnson's biggest issue is he has knifed so many people in the past to get the top job you know that revenge will come fast and soon.

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