Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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fozzieskem
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:37 pm

Trade deals don’t fall off trees they take months if not years to complete the leave arguement of “we’re free”holds no water there will be shortages etc,simply put it doesn’t need to happen we have it pretty good at present but. O the lunatic Johnson and his right wing cabal won’t have it

thegimble
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by thegimble » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:58 pm

I now seriously think Boris was an agent of remain all along. No way could he be this naive and think by closing down Westminster, kicking out 21 mp's, kicking his own cabinet advisors out he would be able to get a no deal through.

Tories are now divided more than labour. Its incredible to watch this happening. Propoganda all ready in mail sun and express that Corbyn is running scared. Its awsome reading that drivel and knowing after the 31st October Corbyn and others will bring Johnson down.

Johnson will resign next week or so Corbyn if backed by pro remain tories will take power get an extension and call an election. That now is a serious possibility. Imagine that 2 weeks ago. Johnson has handed all the cards to the remainers and the mail has done nothing but moan about it.

This is parliamentary democracy you wanted it by voting for leave. After all Johnson behaved like a dictator but thankfully democracy won.

Wiganer Ted
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:20 am

As soon as he formally refuses to go to Brussels to ask for an extension there will be a Vote of No Confidence which Johnson and his Gov't will lose.

Wandering Warrior
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:57 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:06 pm
i know it keeps being said but surely..............SURELY by now brexit folk realise theyve made a right balls up

Disregarding all the huffing and puffing re: trade deals and borders yada yada yada

look at it at the highest level - do you not think if it was a good idea that politicians would be queuing up to be part of it, that it would have a massive business backing, that it would be obvious to all?

I saw something the other day cant remember where (may have been here) that likened brexiteers to the black knight from Monty Python and its the truest thing anyone ever said
Who in their right mind would admit to buying a box but not knowing what the contents were?
That is exactly what they voted for, so they won't admit it! :lol:
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

Wandering Warrior
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wandering Warrior » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:00 am

fozzieskem wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:37 pm
Trade deals don’t fall off trees they take months if not years to complete the leave arguement of “we’re free”holds no water there will be shortages etc,simply put it doesn’t need to happen we have it pretty good at present but. O the lunatic Johnson and his right wing cabal won’t have it
It's not Johnson that's the problem, it's the sheep that lick his arse! :lol:
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:10 am

Just a small point but a significant one if only to point out to Dave O his total lack of understanding the concept of "Soereignty". He points out that in our quest for trade deals we will necessarily give up some of our sovereignty. Nothing could be further from the truth. The very fact that it will be us doing the negotiations ( as opposed to the EU).is an exercise of OUR sovereignty .simple!(for some)!

thegimble
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by thegimble » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:53 pm

SJ wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:10 am
Just a small point but a significant one if only to point out to Dave O his total lack of understanding the concept of "Soereignty". He points out that in our quest for trade deals we will necessarily give up some of our sovereignty. Nothing could be further from the truth. The very fact that it will be us doing the negotiations ( as opposed to the EU).is an exercise of OUR sovereignty .simple!(for some)!
You seriously think that the negotiations for trade will be done by the government. Governments will do what the lobby groups for banks, retail, pharmaceuticals, tobacco, arms manufacturers etc. The much shouted USA trade deal. You think that for a second USA will give us a trade deal that is better than we are on now from the EU. Who next Japan Yeah drive down sushi prices. South Korea, New Zealand for lamb, Russia cheaper vodka (we will never get a Russia deal do not want to upset some nations.

WE have sold out our sovereignty a long time ago when we sold our Railways, Water, Electricity even our armies are overseas fighting for oil and gas. You ever wandered why we went to war in the middle east it was not for the freedom of Iraqis, Libyans or Syrians. We have sold our sovereignty to the massive conglomerates in the world and do their bidding for profits.

You seriously think that governments will get a better deal then we have with the EU by going WTO and that has a major issue atm. We can not allow Irish goods to cross over with a no deal Brexit without checks. As we will go WTO rules and if you allow 1 nation with WTO rule in without check at borders, then under WTO rules you have to allow all others with WTO the same courtesy.

Got off track I think but we do not have sovereignty we sold that a long time ago under both parties.

DaveO
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by DaveO » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:11 pm

SJ wrote:Just a small point but a significant one if only to point out to Dave O his total lack of understanding the concept of "Soereignty". He points out that in our quest for trade deals we will necessarily give up some of our sovereignty. Nothing could be further from the truth. The very fact that it will be us doing the negotiations ( as opposed to the EU).is an exercise of OUR sovereignty .simple!(for some)!
Of course negotiating trade deals requires you to give up sovereignty. If you don’t know that it’s you ho doesn’t know what you are talking about.

Trade deals are underpinned by reams of rules and regulations which are legally enforceable. When we are negotiating one with the EU they will insist, for example, if it covers the export of British beef, the beef meets EU standards.

Now you can kid yourself all you want that if we agree to those rules on beef that is us exercising our sovereignty but the fact remains if we want to export stuff to the EU, whatever it is, that stuff must comply with EU rules and regulations. They will tell us what is required and the only sovereignty we can exercise is whether we comply or not and if we chose not to, then whatever sector that refers to won’t be able to export to the EU.

Your post typifies what is wrong with the Leaver mentality. When you say negotiate you really mean we get to dictate what we will accept. You think because it will be us doing the negotiating the outcome will be different and different in our favour. You are living in a fantasy world if you do.

It won’t be. It’s basic common sense to realise if we want to keep exporting everything we do to the EU then we have to accept all the EU rules and regulations that govern the export of whatever it is we want to export to them. We will cede our sovereignty to the EU by agreeing to its rules.

The other part of you post that makes my head hit the desk is this notion that the EU negotiated the trade deals as if we had no part in them. As if we sat idly by complaining from the sidelines. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is not one EU trade deal we did not contribute to or agree with.

Wintergreen
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wintergreen » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:52 pm

The economic argument for leaving the EU has gone now (at least for the next 10 years anyway)

Even the most ardent of Leave supporters would have to agree.

We have to face reality that the prime reason people voted leave is not economic, it is emotional.

It's very sad, points to a lack of knowledge and highlights many things that are wrong with this country. But it's the reason many voted to leave.

fozzieskem
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by fozzieskem » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:06 pm

Wintergreen wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:52 pm
The economic argument for leaving the EU has gone now (at least for the next 10 years anyway)

Even the most ardent of Leave supporters would have to agree.

We have to face reality that the prime reason people voted leave is not economic, it is emotional.

It's very sad, points to a lack of knowledge and highlights many things that are wrong with this country. But it's the reason many voted to leave.
Very true,quite why people can’t see that life is pretty good in this country and has been for the last 20 years or so but it’s clear for more than just a few race has played its part and I find that crushingly sad

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