Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

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Wiganer Ted
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by Wiganer Ted » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:40 am

It looks like today's Tory manifesto launch will be dominated by the Rees-Mogg comments about Grenfell.

If anything fell into Labour's narrative that the Tories are run by the elite for the elite and are out of touch and don't care about everyday people then this is it. How they manage their pressy will be interesting. I won't be watching!
Johnson's headline in today's Daily Telegraph defending Billionaires and their profits is a very long way from where they need to be to win Labour heartland seats in the NW, NE & West Mdlands. His column was widely trashed on the tv last night even by the Tory stalwarts.

Are we heading for the old saying "Governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them"?

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:34 am

I don't know what JRM has said except what I've been told to wit getting away from the fire is a matter of common sence. This corresponds to every instruction be it school,office or factory. Vacate the premises immediately leave belongings etc and proceed to the designated assembly point and await further instructions. is common sense. To be told to wait in harms way transgresses common sense or so it seems to me unless there are extenuating reasons for doing so

southernpie
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by southernpie » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:48 am

SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:34 am
I don't know what JRM has said except what I've been told to wit getting away from the fire is a matter of common sence. This corresponds to every instruction be it school,office or factory. Vacate the premises immediately leave belongings etc and proceed to the designated assembly point and await further instructions. is common sense. To be told to wait in harms way transgresses common sense or so it seems to me unless there are extenuating reasons for doing so
It is to do with the building design, high rise flats are built with each flat being completely compartmentalised (ie seperated by fire control measures from each other, concrete floors and ceilings etc.) so a fire within one flat will be contained inside that flat. The weak points are the flat external door and windows which have a minimum of one hour fire protection. If a fire burns through the window, because of the design of the walls there is nothing else to burn so stops going any further, the front door is higher protection but opens onto a lobby which will have fire protection doors on all other flats and onto the staircase. Also this is why so many high rise staircases are bare walls and no adornments are allowed (no fuel for the fire).
Therefore if all fire doors are shut the fire can not get very far. Occupants therefore staying in their flat are in a safe place for a considerable amount of time. This then keeps all the staircases and lobbys free for the firefighters to get themselves and their required equipment to the correct place unhindered and the fire would be dealt with in suitable time to prevent danger to anyone else.
In my time in the fire service I attended several flat "fires" in Manchester, where someone came home from work to find their flat gutted by fire and the fire had gone out as the protections had worked that well no-one noticed the fire.
Unfortunately there has been a "relaxation" of building control measures, which unbeknownst to the fire services around the country, allowed a pretty looking cladding to be applied to the external walls. This cladding was in fact highly flammable so when the fire came through the window at Grenfall it quickly spread to other flats.
All the fire brigade standard procedures went belly up when something that wasn't supposed to happen, did in fact happen. The London Fire Service have been castigated for not training for this scenario, but my answer is "Do they also train for when Martians land in Piccadilly" the idea of what happened was just as far fetched.
So the answer is at most premises the fire brigades instruction is to get out and stay out, but in a block of residential flats the normal course of instruction is stay inside and shut all doors.
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SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:30 pm

Thanks for that SP

jobo
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by jobo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm

SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:30 pm
Thanks for that SP
So you agree now SJ that JRM is an entitled twit, who should keep his plum filled gob shut and stop trying to imply it was the Fire Service who are at fault.

medlocke
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by medlocke » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm

jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm
SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:30 pm
Thanks for that SP
So you agree now SJ that JRM is an entitled twit, who should keep his plum filled gob shut and stop trying to imply it was the Fire Service who are at fault.
Wasn't it the fault of the Labour council that signed off on the cladding in the first place??

jobo
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by jobo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:27 pm

medlocke wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm
jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm
SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:30 pm
Thanks for that SP
So you agree now SJ that JRM is an entitled twit, who should keep his plum filled gob shut and stop trying to imply it was the Fire Service who are at fault.
Wasn't it the fault of the Labour council that signed off on the cladding in the first place??
Don't know who's fault it was but Westminster council is Tory.

SJ
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by SJ » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:46 pm

jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm
SJ wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:30 pm
Thanks for that SP
So you agree now SJ that JRM is an entitled twit, who should keep his plum filled gob shut and stop trying to imply it was the Fire Service who are at fault.
No. SPsays the fire brigade weren't aware that building fire regs had been relaxed I find this incredulous has they are the custodians of the safety regs on behalf of the LA. In fact the safety regs for the building were ineffective to the extent that the advice given to the residents were defunct and because of the relaxation and the ussual procedures consistent with common sense shoul have been followed. Seems to me that serious charges could possibly be forthcoming.

medlocke
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by medlocke » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:20 pm

jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:27 pm
medlocke wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm
jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm


So you agree now SJ that JRM is an entitled twit, who should keep his plum filled gob shut and stop trying to imply it was the Fire Service who are at fault.
Wasn't it the fault of the Labour council that signed off on the cladding in the first place??
Don't know who's fault it was but Westminster council is Tory.
Are you sure it was at the time of the refurbishment, I'm sure I read it was under Labour at the time, could be wrong though

jobo
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Re: Why we will be worse off through Brexit (Question from other forum)

Post by jobo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:18 pm

medlocke wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:20 pm
jobo wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:27 pm
medlocke wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm


Wasn't it the fault of the Labour council that signed off on the cladding in the first place??
Don't know who's fault it was but Westminster council is Tory.
Are you sure it was at the time of the refurbishment, I'm sure I read it was under Labour at the time, could be wrong though
Not sure myself but which ever council was in power, I'm pretty sure they'd have acted under advise from professionals.

I suppose it will all boil down to who performed the risk/benefit assessment as regards changing the cladding and not installing sprinklers.

Just think the politicians need to give their heads a good shake before they offer an opinion.

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