Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

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medlocke
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by medlocke » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:58 pm

Wiganer Ted wrote:And how did Hamas start up then?
When they formed, Arafat and Fatah ran the Gaza with ruthless enforcement. So just how did they manage it and who gave them the finance and arms?
No Guesses?
I don't know Ted, but no doubt you'll be able to slip a 2nd referendum in there somewhere

Wiganer Ted
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wiganer Ted » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:32 pm

They had a General Election in Gaza but never a referendum.
If they not had a first referendum how can they have a second?
Pray tell Meds.

BriH
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by BriH » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:53 pm

As a life-long member of the Labour Party I have to agree with this assessment.
Unfortunately.

BriH
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by BriH » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:53 pm

Josie's friend wrote:It's spot on and Jeremy Corbyn is making it worse. Idiots saying how great he is but ignore how he's a terrorist sympathiser and a traitor.
Traitor??

DaveO
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by DaveO » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:08 pm

BriH wrote:
As a life-long member of the Labour Party I have to agree with this assessment.
Unfortunately.
What are you actually agreeing with? It's an article founded upon a heap of straw men. The article is saying the Labour party is run by middle class degree-educated politicians. Well what do you think Michael Foot and Tony Benn were? Foot began his career as a journalist on the Evening Standard and Benn inherited a peerage!

If you look at Harold Wilsons shadow cabinet in 1970 here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sh ... old_Wilson

You will find every one of them bar Jim Callaghan, who passed the Oxford entrance exam but could not afford to go so went into the civil service instead, were degree educated with many going to Oxford. And this is before the modern vast expansion of University education. The article basically complains currently there are too many with degrees when as a proportion back then it was so much higher!

The entire shadow cabinet was middle class including Barbera Castle who graduated from Oxford with one of those now much derided "PPE" degrees the likes of Cameron and Osbourne have.

The accusation Corbyn's current Labour party is out of touch because it is run by a middle class elite does not wash when it was being run by the exact same sort of people back in the 1970's when there was no such accusation being made.

The author needs to look for other reasons to have a go at the party other than Corbyn being a member of the Islington elite. He clearly could not be bothered to do any background research before coming up with his big idea.

The Blairite party did lose touch with it's roots of that I have no doubt but the Corbyn one is headed back in that direction.

If there is disenchantment with Labour in the heartlands the author needs to look elsewhere for reasons. I suggest being totally disenfranchised by Blairite New Labour and Lib/Dem & Tory's since 1997 has got more to do with it than anything Corbyn has done or his background. Another is the more or less blatant call to racism and xenophobic nationalism of parties like UKIP which no Labour party politician can endorse. They have to counter that nasty politics for sure but any shift towards nationalism is not Corbyn or the current Labour parties fault.








Wintergreen
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wintergreen » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:48 pm

DaveO wrote:
BriH wrote:
As a life-long member of the Labour Party I have to agree with this assessment.
Unfortunately.
What are you actually agreeing with? It's an article founded upon a heap of straw men. The article is saying the Labour party is run by middle class degree-educated politicians. Well what do you think Michael Foot and Tony Benn were? Foot began his career as a journalist on the Evening Standard and Benn inherited a peerage!

If you look at Harold Wilsons shadow cabinet in 1970 here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sh ... old_Wilson

You will find every one of them bar Jim Callaghan, who passed the Oxford entrance exam but could not afford to go so went into the civil service instead, were degree educated with many going to Oxford. And this is before the modern vast expansion of University education. The article basically complains currently there are too many with degrees when as a proportion back then it was so much higher!

The entire shadow cabinet was middle class including Barbera Castle who graduated from Oxford with one of those now much derided "PPE" degrees the likes of Cameron and Osbourne have.

The accusation Corbyn's current Labour party is out of touch because it is run by a middle class elite does not wash when it was being run by the exact same sort of people back in the 1970's when there was no such accusation being made.

The author needs to look for other reasons to have a go at the party other than Corbyn being a member of the Islington elite. He clearly could not be bothered to do any background research before coming up with his big idea.

The Blairite party did lose touch with it's roots of that I have no doubt but the Corbyn one is headed back in that direction.

If there is disenchantment with Labour in the heartlands the author needs to look elsewhere for reasons. I suggest being totally disenfranchised by Blairite New Labour and Lib/Dem & Tory's since 1997 has got more to do with it than anything Corbyn has done or his background. Another is the more or less blatant call to racism and xenophobic nationalism of parties like UKIP which no Labour party politician can endorse. They have to counter that nasty politics for sure but any shift towards nationalism is not Corbyn or the current Labour parties fault.

You are missing the point DaveO. Let me make it easier for you.

Of course there are similarities in terms of educational attainment between now and the 70's. This, however, is not the thrust of the argument.

The key take-outs from the article, imo, are:

Many working-class people in the north continue to vote Labour out of a sense of traditional loyalty: the Conservative Party’s attempt to win places like Bishop Auckland in the 2016 election singularly failed. But they are increasingly voting for a party that is no longer “theirs”, either organisationally or physically. They are outsiders lending support, rather than stake-holders exercising ownership. As Mr Cobley puts it, the Labour Party is now a party of middle-class, white-skinned members, divided fairly equally between men and women, who rely, for their most reliable votes, on non-white voters, particularly Muslims.

[/quote]

keptinthedarkfans
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by keptinthedarkfans » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:42 pm

Wandering Warrior wrote:I wonder if Corbyn has ever got up at 5am to do a shift?
Cant stand the man. But same could be said about of all party leaders. Doubt any of them ever seeing 5am except on there way home from freebie do's

Wandering Warrior
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wandering Warrior » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:32 pm

I'm not particularly keen on the man though I'll never vote Tory.
However I will say that I have never seen a bigger collection of MP's during my lifetime who are self serving odious objects on both sides of the house.
Mogg is a classic example of a born billionaire who hasn't got a clue what real folks' lives are like?
When Brexit goes belly up as it clearly will, given the time span left before d-day, what's the odds Johnson, Mogg, Farage, et al, fly off out the road to their Chateaus, just as that mon with the backbone of a crab, Cameron, did earlier? That will leave those who can least afford to fund the cost!!
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield

southernpie
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by southernpie » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:51 pm

Wandering Warrior wrote:I'm not particularly keen on the man though I'll never vote Tory.
However I will say that I have never seen a bigger collection of MP's during my lifetime who are self serving odious objects on both sides of the house.
My thought exactly
Wandering Warrior wrote:Mogg is a classic example of a born billionaire who hasn't got a clue what real folks' lives are like?
When Brexit goes belly up as it clearly will, given the time span left before d-day, what's the odds Johnson, Mogg, Farage, et al, fly off out the road to their Chateaus, just as that mon with the backbone of a crab, Cameron, did earlier? That will leave those who can least afford to fund the cost!!
And even if Brexit is/was a good thing, this bunch of idiots running the country (both sides of the house and both houses)couldn't run a p*&s up in a brewery as they are all in it (politics) for their own personal benefit and not what's best for the country so we would still have been ripped off by them pandering to the rest of the EU.
Yes that is a generalisation and I know there are some good mp's about
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moto748
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by moto748 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:43 am

DaveO wrote:
What are you actually agreeing with? It's an article founded upon a heap of straw men. The article is saying the Labour party is run by middle class degree-educated politicians. Well what do you think Michael Foot and Tony Benn were? Foot began his career as a journalist on the Evening Standard and Benn inherited a peerage!

If you look at Harold Wilsons shadow cabinet in 1970 here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sh ... old_Wilson

You will find every one of them bar Jim Callaghan, who passed the Oxford entrance exam but could not afford to go so went into the civil service instead, were degree educated with many going to Oxford. And this is before the modern vast expansion of University education. The article basically complains currently there are too many with degrees when as a proportion back then it was so much higher!

The entire shadow cabinet was middle class including Barbera Castle who graduated from Oxford with one of those now much derided "PPE" degrees the likes of Cameron and Osbourne have.

The accusation Corbyn's current Labour party is out of touch because it is run by a middle class elite does not wash when it was being run by the exact same sort of people back in the 1970's when there was no such accusation being made.

The author needs to look for other reasons to have a go at the party other than Corbyn being a member of the Islington elite. He clearly could not be bothered to do any background research before coming up with his big idea.

The Blairite party did lose touch with it's roots of that I have no doubt but the Corbyn one is headed back in that direction.

If there is disenchantment with Labour in the heartlands the author needs to look elsewhere for reasons. I suggest being totally disenfranchised by Blairite New Labour and Lib/Dem & Tory's since 1997 has got more to do with it than anything Corbyn has done or his background. Another is the more or less blatant call to racism and xenophobic nationalism of parties like UKIP which no Labour party politician can endorse. They have to counter that nasty politics for sure but any shift towards nationalism is not Corbyn or the current Labour parties fault.






Well said, Dave.

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