Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

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SJ
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by SJ » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:36 pm

southernpie wrote:
Wandering Warrior wrote:I'm not particularly keen on the man though I'll never vote Tory.
However I will say that I have never seen a bigger collection of MP's during my lifetime who are self serving odious objects on both sides of the house.
My thought exactly
Wandering Warrior wrote:Mogg is a classic example of a born billionaire who hasn't got a clue what real folks' lives are like?
When Brexit goes belly up as it clearly will, given the time span left before d-day, what's the odds Johnson, Mogg, Farage, et al, fly off out the road to their Chateaus, just as that mon with the backbone of a crab, Cameron, did earlier? That will leave those who can least afford to fund the cost!!
And even if Brexit is/was a good thing, this bunch of idiots running the country (both sides of the house and both houses)couldn't run a p*&s up in a brewery as they are all in it (politics) for their own personal benefit and not what's best for the country so we would still have been ripped off by them pandering to the rest of the EU.
Yes that is a generalisation and I know there are some good mp's about
Yes there is a lot of self-serving politicians about just as there are in general. However I wouldn't include Rees Mogg amongst themFrom my perspective I think he is an honourable man. Look at some of U Tobe clips completely destroying adversaries in dialogue. Ok. I'm biased the only thing I don't agree with him about is his stance on abortion. However I put that down to his religious up bringing which has shaped his way of thinking analogous to the people who say they will never vote Labour Consevative or whatever. I myself was a socialist has a youth. Full of high ideals etc until life's experiences brought my niavette into view and could form my own judgement on issues that were cogent to me and mine.
They only reason Labour want the voting age reduced and the reason for their voting actions prior toThe last election,toward the young was to garner Their votes This also was behind Labourers multi Cultural policies to garner their votes. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it until or if I'm shown to be wrong and that's not an invitation to Dave O to write an exegesis on what a thick bigger I am. :lol: all spellings are my own and copyright as is its coherence or otherwise

DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by DaveO » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:24 pm

SJ wrote:Yes there is a lot of self-serving politicians about just as there are in general. However I wouldn't include Rees Mogg amongst themFrom my perspective I think he is an honourable man. Look at some of U Tobe clips completely destroying adversaries in dialogue. Ok. I'm biased the only thing I don't agree with him about is his stance on abortion. However I put that down to his religious up bringing which has shaped his way of thinking analogous to the people who say they will never vote Labour Consevative or whatever. I myself was a socialist has a youth. Full of high ideals etc until life's experiences brought my niavette into view and could form my own judgement on issues that were cogent to me and mine.
They only reason Labour want the voting age reduced and the reason for their voting actions prior toThe last election,toward the young was to garner Their votes This also was behind Labourers multi Cultural policies to garner their votes. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it until or if I'm shown to be wrong and that's not an invitation to Dave O to write an exegesis on what a thick bigger I am. :lol: all spellings are my own and copyright as is its coherence or otherwise
Destroying adversaries in dialogue is a debating society game. You can spout bullshit and do that if you are clever with your words and that is the best that can be said of Rees-Mogg. He is a bit like BoJo and likes to hide behind his upper class twittery and "wordsmithery". Facts and understanding are of secondary importance to him.

Underneath the last thing he is is honorable. If he was he'd state the real reasons he wants Brexit which is to go hell for leather full on free market Thatcherism++. But no, he barely ever mentions this and its inevitable effects in passing. For example, he will tell you we will get cheaper chicken but never says it will be at the expense of the UK poultry industry. The fact he's opened an Irish part of his hedge fund business and is banking on the fall out from a hard brexit should also show you how honourable he is.

As to his stance on abortion you let him off far too easily because he is a reactionary in the true sense of the word. He might be jokingly referred to as the "Honourable Member for the 18th Century" but there is actually a lot of truth in it.
They only reason Labour want the voting age reduced and the reason for their voting actions prior toThe last election,toward the young was to garner Their votes This also was behind Labourers multi Cultural policies to garner their votes.
Well given successive Labour & Tory governments have since the end of WWII invited immigration from all over the world any political party who ignores the fact the UK is, whether people like it or not, multicultural is stupid from an electoral point of view.

Don't forget part of the campaign for Brexit was based on telling the large Midlands Asian population that Brexit would see an end to "immigration discrimination" whereby post-Brexit entry to the UK would be open to all. It seems garnering votes from cultural minorities is fair game.

That said I do know what upsets some people about multiculturalism is when we do allow them nasty foreigners into the country they don't start supporting England at cricket. I am sure some would prefer any Italian restaurateurs coming here to open a bloody chippy rather than a Pizzeria just so they proved that they have assimilated.

DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by DaveO » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:13 pm

Wintergreen wrote: You are missing the point DaveO. Let me make it easier for you.

Of course there are similarities in terms of educational attainment between now and the 70's. This, however, is not the thrust of the argument.

The key take-outs from the article, imo, are:

Many working-class people in the north continue to vote Labour out of a sense of traditional loyalty: the Conservative Party’s attempt to win places like Bishop Auckland in the 2016 election singularly failed. But they are increasingly voting for a party that is no longer “theirs”, either organisationally or physically. They are outsiders lending support, rather than stake-holders exercising ownership. As Mr Cobley puts it, the Labour Party is now a party of middle-class, white-skinned members, divided fairly equally between men and women, who rely, for their most reliable votes, on non-white voters, particularly Muslims.
[/quote]

No that is a short passage from a long article that, as I said completely ignores the fact the party was dominated by degree educated people in the 70's and is full of straw man arguments.

As to it relying on the support of ethnic minorities,particularly muslims, what a load of complete and utter unsubstantiated tripe. There are supposedly around 2.8m Muslims in the UK in total which includes children so it's neat trick to jump to the conclusion a party under Corbyn that polled 12.8m votes in 2017 is reliant on non-white mainly muslim voters for its core support. The Labour vote went up by 9.6% in 2017 compared to 2015.

In any case given there are increased numbers of ethnic minorities in the UK are they not allowed to join or support political parties? And assuming they are, if large numbers of them support Labour what is wrong with that? Is the author trying to imply this alienates some Labour voters in traditional areas because they are racist?




Wiganer Ted
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wiganer Ted » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:27 pm

The decision by Corbyn and McDonnell to exclude a Remain option in another referendum seems to be something for the benefit of the few not the many.

moto748
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Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by moto748 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:41 pm

Wiganer Ted wrote:The decision by Corbyn and McDonnell to exclude a Remain option in another referendum seems to be something for the benefit of the few not the many.
Except that it's not in Corbyn's or McDonnell's gift to decide whether we have a 2nd ref or not, nor what the questions therein would be.

Wiganer Ted
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wiganer Ted » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:50 pm

Should May end up without a deal Labour will go for a vote of No Confidence. The Govt will win but an amendment with a further referendum on offer. The wording of that amendment will be down to Corbyn and McDonnell.
Their difficulty will be going against conference who went for a Remain worded vote.
How it pans out over the next six weeks will be interesting.

moto748
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by moto748 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:25 am

Well I think you overstate any influence Labour might have on events, but as you say, time will tell. In the current crazy state of politics worldwide, who can sure of anything any more?

DaveO
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Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by DaveO » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:37 am

Wiganer Ted wrote:Should May end up without a deal Labour will go for a vote of No Confidence. The Govt will win but an amendment with a further referendum on offer. The wording of that amendment will be down to Corbyn and McDonnell.
Impossible on all counts. A government that wins a no confidence vote stays in power. They therefore have just won the right to ignore the fact a "no deal" exit was an issue if that is what prompted a no confidence vote.

No need to offer anything least of all another referendum.

Another referendum is not Labours gift to give either as they are not in power.



Wiganer Ted
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Spot on assessment of the Labour Party

Post by Wiganer Ted » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:29 am

If they are defeated on the bill then the amendment could well be passed. How the Govt plays the No Confidence vote we don't know.
It would be a big risk to put the W Bill and No Confidence together as some media have said.

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