Changing of the guard

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Wintergreen
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Changing of the guard

Post by Wintergreen » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:44 pm

In 1996 Wigan RL played Bath RU in a couple of matches. Whilst, somewhat predictably, Wigan won the RL game and Bath came out on top in RU, it was generally accepted that in the traits that were common between the two codes- running, passing, lines of attack and general skill levels, RL was light years ahead.

Having watched the England vs Aus RU game yesterday, and comparing it to the Wigan RL team in 2019, I can say with all honesty that this situation has reversed.

It has taken the best part of 20 years, but it has now happened.

fozzieskem
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by fozzieskem » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:42 am

I caught a couple of the Scotland four nations games on tv last winter and thought the same,it is exciting to watch but would I pay to go and see it,yes would be the answer but getting tickets for the internationals is a thankless task

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:46 am

Wintergreen wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:44 pm
In 1996 Wigan RL played Bath RU in a couple of matches. Whilst, somewhat predictably, Wigan won the RL game and Bath came out on top in RU, it was generally accepted that in the traits that were common between the two codes- running, passing, lines of attack and general skill levels, RL was light years ahead.

Having watched the England vs Aus RU game yesterday, and comparing it to the Wigan RL team in 2019, I can say with all honesty that this situation has reversed.

It has taken the best part of 20 years, but it has now happened.
League has been tripping over itself for a while now and Union has deffo caught up the game is much better to watch than it used to be
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

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Mike
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by Mike » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:22 pm

Merger?

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Wigan_forever1985
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:26 am

I think with union the disparity in role has helped it as a game. Props are still Props and backs are still backs in that game and while in their respective areas they have improved fitness they have distinct job roles that haven't changed so the game feels like it has a more organic flow to it and it matters who has the ball etc

League has a little bit become a team of 2nd rowers who all do much and much a like, there are probably as many hitups by backs as forwards in our game. The speed of our game has increased to a level which has nullified the skill a little, its now more about fitness and strength than clever halfs and zippy wingers
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

ian.birchall
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by ian.birchall » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:26 am

Wigan_forever1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:46 am
Wintergreen wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:44 pm
In 1996 Wigan RL played Bath RU in a couple of matches. Whilst, somewhat predictably, Wigan won the RL game and Bath came out on top in RU, it was generally accepted that in the traits that were common between the two codes- running, passing, lines of attack and general skill levels, RL was light years ahead.

Having watched the England vs Aus RU game yesterday, and comparing it to the Wigan RL team in 2019, I can say with all honesty that this situation has reversed.

It has taken the best part of 20 years, but it has now happened.
League has been tripping over itself for a while now and Union has deffo caught up the game is much better to watch than it used to be
I am a great believer in the bonus point that RU has adapted over the past few years. It makes sense to keep trying to score tries rather than penalty goals and to keep trying for a losing bonus point even if you have no chance if winning so keeps a high proportion of games worth more if effort keeps going.
Superleague could improve quickly if we adopted this rule change.
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

ian.birchall
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by ian.birchall » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:28 am

Mike wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:22 pm
Merger?
Wash your mouth out Mike!
🤡
Last edited by ian.birchall on Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regarder une fille en bikini, c'est comme avoir un revolver chargé sur sa table:
Il n'y a rien de mal a ça mais il est difficile de penser à autre chose.


Now Europe is just for holidays.

Lazy J
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by Lazy J » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:13 am

For what it’s worth, I feel leagues biggest issue has been the constant drive to speed the game up, as someone has stated all our players are similar builds, like second rowers.

The game has become more about fitness and toughness than skill, some of the passing in rl is shockingly poor, the RU game was shockingly slow with minutes wasted with scrums and line outs
But when the ball was in play it was good to watch, RU have looked at the game as a whole and looked how ti improve it whilst keeping true to the game. In RL we have short term goals, the rules are changed every year to speed it up and we get fitter players etc.

Maybe we need to look at ways of using the scrum more, as a device to tie players up, and stop it being a roll in and out, make forwards bind, and stay in the scrum till the ball has cleared not just come out, maybe make scrums competitive, or insist that players numbered as forwards are in the scrum

I don’t have the answers, but outside Aus the game is in trouble, look at crowds for the major finals and internationals we can’t fill the DW for England v NZ, it’s its not really full for the Aussies coming over.

Wigan’s average is down saints have defeated all before them the, the ecig stadium only holds 16000(?) but it’s never full, you shouldn’t be able to get a ticket for it, saints played some lovely rugby last season.

Ru is slowly taking hold in the heartlands, Canada isn’t the solution, Catalans have done nothing for the game in France, the french national team is worse than ever. We need to make the game more appealing.

We need to get behind the marketing of 2 or 3 players to raise their national profile, Sam Tomkins was the last current player on QOS, give kids roll models, the RU did it with Jonny willkicksoon and are doing the same with Farrell and Ford 2 ex rl halfbacks

Sorry rant over
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DaveO
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by DaveO » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:54 pm

RU has adapted to try and make the game more attractive over the years. Lifting at the line out was illegal, they changed that. Five point try to reduce drop goals attempts and the bonus point.

However it can still be incredibly boring. Teams almost have to cooperate to deliver a spectacle and South Africa had already said they will attempt to grind out a win v England in the final.

Penalties still determine many results as well.

Let’s not also forget that in Oz, RU is very much third fiddle to RL and Aussie Rules football.

Skill wise and fitness wise RU is far better than it was at the time of the Bath game and in my opinion RL has gone backwards in the UK particularly in the skill department. This is hardly surprising when the best players are enticed away or never even play the game e.g. Owen Farrell and Ford.

RL has lost something and it started with the 10m rule. Worst of all the rule changes IMO but I think the biggest issue is lower skill levels. Watching Wigan at times the passing can be awful and the lack of awareness of players not much better. It’s not just Wigan. How often do we see the comment “A game played by two poor teams”?

In the end it boils down to money. Money is needed to retain players and to develop them in the first place.

The return of the reserve completion might help players retain fitness and skill levels somewhat but unless the sport can attract the best athletes and keep them it’s not going to compete in the UK.

They have the best athletes playing RL in Oz and they put on some spectacular games. We need that caliber of player here.

Wintergreen
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Re: Changing of the guard

Post by Wintergreen » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:12 am

DaveO wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:54 pm
RU has adapted to try and make the game more attractive over the years. Lifting at the line out was illegal, they changed that. Five point try to reduce drop goals attempts and the bonus point.

However it can still be incredibly boring. Teams almost have to cooperate to deliver a spectacle and South Africa had already said they will attempt to grind out a win v England in the final.

Penalties still determine many results as well.

Let’s not also forget that in Oz, RU is very much third fiddle to RL and Aussie Rules football.

Skill wise and fitness wise RU is far better than it was at the time of the Bath game and in my opinion RL has gone backwards in the UK particularly in the skill department. This is hardly surprising when the best players are enticed away or never even play the game e.g. Owen Farrell and Ford.

RL has lost something and it started with the 10m rule. Worst of all the rule changes IMO but I think the biggest issue is lower skill levels. Watching Wigan at times the passing can be awful and the lack of awareness of players not much better. It’s not just Wigan. How often do we see the comment “A game played by two poor teams”?

In the end it boils down to money. Money is needed to retain players and to develop them in the first place.

The return of the reserve completion might help players retain fitness and skill levels somewhat but unless the sport can attract the best athletes and keep them it’s not going to compete in the UK.

They have the best athletes playing RL in Oz and they put on some spectacular games. We need that caliber of player here.
Well you're not going to get that with the current Salary Cap levels.

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