O/T English Sport

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waterside glens
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by waterside glens » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:08 pm

ireland is playing some good union at the moment probably 2nd best in world behind all blacks

mike binder
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by mike binder » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:21 pm

cpwigan posted:
Very. To be the best at whatever you do you have to have something extra. We do not instill the magic that releases or develops that special talent.

Read the Evening Post about schoolboy rugby and then ask Mike Binder what it is really like. There is a statement in that article that exemplifies why we are so poor at sport.
in sports these days its not a case of how talenred you are ,its a case of who you know and does your face fit .If it dosnt fit at certain clubs for get it move and try somewhere else to many family run teams :angry:
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stevocod
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by stevocod » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:05 pm

adrenalinxx posted:
What is happening to English International Sport at the moment, the main English sports are Football, Rugby Union, Cricket and Rugby League and so far this year the Football team have been far from impressive, the Rugby Union team are on one of the worst run in along time, the cricket team are getting slaughtered by the Aussies and the rugby league team had another poor season in the tri-nations only managing to win one match.

It appears that England is still second best to the Australians so why are they such a dominate force in sport. Is it because of their attitude, is it because the weather conditions down their allow people to play sport almost all year round. I would love to here other people’s opinions on the matter because it is something that has puzzled me and many other people for a long time.

If anyone has been to Australia what are the main differences you notice between England and Australia (apart from the weather)

If made this off-topic but it certainly has some relevance to Rugby League.
Not correct in Rugby union as Australia are trying players in new positions and only beat Italy on their tour!

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adrenalinxx
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by adrenalinxx » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:26 pm

stevocod posted:
Not correct in Rugby union as Australia are trying players in new positions and only beat Italy on their tour!
Nope they beat Scotland twice, Ireland once, Italy once and drew with Wales, in fact the only match they lost was to Ireland 21-6. So the 2006 Tour went well for the Aussies even if it was a mixture of first and second grade team.
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DaveO
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by DaveO » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:31 am

Cruncher posted:
For years we had elitist know-alls in our education departments who actively tried to do away with competitiveness because it was unfair on the losers.

Can you imagine trying to sell that to an Aussie?

It is nothing to do with that IMO. Those who want to play sport will play sport. The point was made that the Aussie government invested in sport in a big way. We tried to mimic it with "Sport England" but this is a poor relation.

In soccer despite many more teams in the elite competition (than RL) the premiership suffers the same way RL does with too many foreign players. I think it was Kevin Keegan who said he expected the England manager to be picking some from the championship rather than from the premiership sooner rather than later.

We also seem obsessed with club competitions in both sports over the national game. By that I mean in soccer clubs will put themselves before country by signing overseas players just as we do in RL.

Cricket and to a certain extent RU try to have the national side take precidence but there have been numerous club v country debates in RU and so only cricket seems to get the priority right.

IMO cricket has improved. OK we lost the 1st test but the sport seems better prepared for internationals than it used to be. I think they have tried to manage the Kolpak ruling as well (it first reared its head in cricket).

I think there are many reasons we appear to fail but we are also pretty good at knocking ourselves down. In RL we have no excuse but in RU while England only won it recently look at NZ. Favourites numerous times and missed out so are they even worse?

But really there isn't one single reason but a combination of many. Junior development leaves a lot to be desired. In RU kids in Wales play to different rules through the age groups than in England. Why do that? It means when English and Welsh sides meet it can be chaotic as one will normally hand off while one can't and one contests the scrum while the other side does not normally do so.

County trial in Cheshire at U13 level are made up of lots of kids nominated from schools. Some schools send kids who have never played the game before! They are playing against lads who have done it for years. Stupid.

These are just two examples of poor administration of sport and I am sure there are many more.

Dave

DaveO
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by DaveO » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:40 am

GeoffN posted:
The top players, in RL or any other sport, aren't always more skillful or fitter, but, without exception, they hate to lose.
That does not mean you are a bad loser. A bad loser in my book is one who is churlish about it. You can avoid that sort of behaviour and still hate losing.
To illustrate this; I'm not assessed on how many A*s my pupils get, but how many get C or above. Mediocrity rules.
I don't see the analogy. You may only be assessed on how many C and above passes you get that but it is up to you if you want to try get more students with grade A's.

Dave

Welski
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by Welski » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:38 am

It's the governments fault.

They have a mandate of penalising success, and rewarding mediocrity right across the spectrum.

Through the abolition of Grammar Schools its no longer the brightest pupils that have the best chance but the richest. The sale of School playing fields and doing away with competitive sports has played a huge part in our sporting decline. In business we now have the highest levels of taxation -particularly for the most successful- since the days of Robin Hood.

Lets get back to natural selection, survival of the fittest, it is the only way the human race can improve.
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GeoffN
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by GeoffN » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:42 am

DaveO posted:
To illustrate this; I'm not assessed on how many A*s my pupils get, but how many get C or above. Mediocrity rules.
I don't see the analogy. You may only be assessed on how many C and above passes you get that but it is up to you if you want to try get more students with grade A's.

Dave
It's a question of resources, Dave. Given the choice of whether to concentrate on pushing the D's up to C, or the A's up to A*, the system rewards the former.
We need an "elite", in sport or anything else, but "elitism" is seen as a dirty word.
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stevocod
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by stevocod » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:38 pm

adrenalinxx posted:
stevocod posted:
Not correct in Rugby union as Australia are trying players in new positions and only beat Italy on their tour!
Nope they beat Scotland twice, Ireland once, Italy once and drew with Wales, in fact the only match they lost was to Ireland 21-6. So the 2006 Tour went well for the Aussies even if it was a mixture of first and second grade team.
You said they beat Ireland once and then you said they lost to them!!! No disrespect to Scottish and Italian rugby teams, they are hardly the leading nations in the six nations are they?

cpwigan
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Re: O/T English Sport

Post by cpwigan » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:54 pm

The specialist schools system has never done what it should do. It has just become an extra source of funding. For me, if it worked properly, the most talented sports students would be filtered to the sports school and so on.

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