Re: Maurice's worst mistake...

[GeoffN]

DaveO posted:

GeoffN posted:
A chairman should be judged on results, the same as a coach. Maurice has been building for the future for the last ten years, and what have we won in that period?
One Grand Final and one Challenge Cup.
In 10 years.
That's not good enough for a club like Wigan.

Look at Leeds. First Championsip for 32 years!

People say Mo could only win when he had money to burn well Leeds spent a fortune on trying to emulate Wigan and so look at the success we have had over the last 32 years and see how many of them Mo was in chrge for.

Dave

Yes Dave, I'm not saying he hasn't done a lot of good for the club in the past. My point is that those days appear to have gone. When a player, however good he has been in the past, is no longer performing, Maurice (quite rightly) gets rid of him.
I'm not expecting a return to the days of "eight straight", but we should be capable of something better than 2 out of 20 possible trophies.

[robjoenz]

I'll admit Maurice isn't all bad, he has made some good signings but the majority of these are in the past. Lindsay had so much power when Wigan were the only professional outfit, was it any wonder the best signed for us?

I do not know who we would have got to replace Lam had he gone last season, but we tied up the wages waiting for him to return from injury. Anyway, who are we replacing him with this season?

Of course it is the 20/20 rule! If there was none we would still have Robinson but since there is one, the decsion had to be made was Robinson worth a 20/20 slot? Mo thinks the answer is no and wants a different player taking up that slot.

Without the 20/20 we may well have had Godwin and Robinson. With it, we can only have one of them and the choice is Godwin.

That sort of decision is going to be common place given the rules and the fact we produce so many good young players. We can't keep them all and sometimes there are going to be players from outside the club whom Mo thinks are a more valuable addition to the squad than the ones we have.

Lindsay said it was the 20/20 rule that was to blame for us not keeping Robinson, he did not say that he did not figure in Wigan's future plans. Lindsay cannot have decided we were going to get Godwin before he let Luke go because Cas were not relegated by then and Cas would have more than likely kept hold of him had they survived. If you would prefer, Maurice has 'mislead' the fans, which is equivalent to lying.

As for Maurice signing players without the coachs consent, this completely undermines the role of coach. The coach has his plans for the team, he is supposed to choose the team he wants (within reason) and he is supposed to shape them. When you try pulling in more than one direction you don't get anywhere!

It's nowt to do with red mist, why would I want to dislike our chairman? As you have pointed out he interferes with selecting the team and this is to blame for poor results... lack of props for example. I'm basing my opinion on what he has said himself (that we are not making a scrum half signing) and things he has done.

[What I said about Danny Orr were cynical tongue in cheek comments so no offence taken.]

[the grinch]

this is a tricky subject on one hand wigan have not won a great deal since the start of super league on the other hand we are constantly in the top six and only a couple of games from winning every thophy on offer! i think its safe to say that since super leauge started bradford have been the most succsesfull in the trophie dept yet wigan have been in just as manny finals as any team!if we had won our finals we would be the best in the division.as for players well they come and go and you have to get over it. i dont agree with players who are injured half the season playing for G.B there only concern shuld be getting fit for there clubs!

[DaveO]

GeoffN posted:

Yes Dave, I'm not saying he hasn't done a lot of good for the club in the past. My point is that those days appear to have gone. When a player, however good he has been in the past, is no longer performing, Maurice (quite rightly) gets rid of him.
I'm not expecting a return to the days of "eight straight", but we should be capable of something better than 2 out of 20 possible trophies.

The competition has changed in that there are now only two trophies on offer and both are decided on the result of a final in each case.

We have got to the finals and although we have come up short the very nature of the competitions means this is always on cards down to bad luck and bad reffing as much as skill.

Can we expect to get to the GF every year? I don't think so even if we finish top of the league.

So I don't really know how to define success. Saying we have only got 2 trophies out of 20 is two more than most of the league.

Dave

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:
I'll admit Maurice isn't all bad, he has made some good signings but the majority of these are in the past. Lindsay had so much power when Wigan were the only professional outfit, was it any wonder the best signed for us?

The club went full time in 1992 (I think) and we were already on a roll by the time that happened. However throughout that period Wigan still produced a lot of home grown talent as well as signing good players. It was not a lot different than now as to how the squad was put together.

As for Maurice signing players without the coachs consent, this completely undermines the role of coach.

But it has always been like that at Wigan. John Monie accepted it as par for the course. Lindsay gave him a team and he had to work with it.

You may think it undermines the coach but the coaches we have had seem happy enough to take the job on under these circumstances. So if they don't see it as a problem I don't see why we should unless Mo was signing rubbish and even recently he has not made many mistakes.

It's nowt to do with red mist, why would I want to dislike our chairman? As you have pointed out he interferes with selecting the team and this is to blame for poor results... lack of props for example. I'm basing my opinion on what he has said himself (that we are not making a scrum half signing) and things he has done.

Well if we don't sign a scrum half then he will have screwed up but I don't think half the problems that are laid at his door are of his making.

He is not perfect by any means but he is certainly an easy target. I was more hacked off last season with some half-hearted performances from the players than with anything he did.

Dave

[GeoffN]

I think the most painful part is that Skints have had more success than we have over that period.

[DaveO]

GeoffN posted:
I think the most painful part is that Skints have had more success than we have over that period.

That is true and when we went over to this system I thought at the time it would suit Saints style of play more than us.

They have never been a great side for slugging out a league championship win over a long season as you had to do the old league system. Much more of a side that blows hot and cold. With the playoffs you can get into them on the back of an inconsistent season (as we did this year) and then you only have to be "hot" for a relatively few games (and hope things go your way with lady luck on the injury/ref front).

These characteristics suit Saints IMO and that is reflected in their success. Top "cup" side if you like and with what are both really cup competitions making up the currect structure, it was made for them.

Dave