Coley confirmed

[DaveO]

Cruncher posted:
For too long we've had mega-earners and poverty-row guys in the same squad, and it hasn't made for harmony.

So what is the club supposed to do? Try and sign an international star on the same wage as the lowest paid player so he won't get upset?

It is a fact of life in all forms of employment some people earn more than others because they are worth more. If some players are resentful of a top class player earning a high wage then perhaps they ought to sit down and see if they think they are as good as that player and offer the club and team as much.

If they are honest with themselves 9 times out of 10 they will see why they earn what they earn compared to the top class players.

I would also say I think if anything this club has mismanaged the salary cap by paying the average players too much.

I have seen it posted several times when players have come here, and I mean any player not just the stars, that the wages Wigan offered were easily more than the other clubs bidding for a players services.

I think you will find this club has been very generous to some pretty average players.

I also think we're trying to channel more cash to our U21s, who, by all accounts, were ready to walk out on us until they heard that a new administration was coming in.

I think a lot of what gets posted about academy players being disgruntled is coming from people with their own agenda and even some of the players themselves.

I can't see how Wigan can be substantially more generous to two teams of juniors (U18 and U21) without impacting its ability to sign players for 1st team squad to an unacceptable degree. The sums just do not add up.

When other teams poach our junior players you have to wonder how they can offer them five figure salaries as is often reported. I think its true to say they often go to clubs with a very shallow junior set up compared to ours and they are being bought with a view they will be in the 1st team squad sooner rather than later.

If Wigan want to have U18 and U21 sides much better paid then then the club will be functioning as an RL academy for the rest of the league IMO while having a substandard 1st team squad.

It may be painful for us, but though I agree in principle with those who feel we'll only improve by signing better players than we've currently got (I've said this myself on a number of occasions), we won't necessarily have to got for the hugely costly mega-stars to pull this off. There are decent players around who won't be massively expensive (though I will admit that Coley, on his own, won't satisfy me in this respect).

Well at the moment with Coley our only signing our squad for 2008 is worse than this years. Would you not agree? If so what do we do about it?

Don't for get there are only 20 slots available for players who earn more than £25K so I certainly hope Coley isn't the standard of player we use to fill any more of these slots up.

I'm assuming David Hodgson is another casualty of this policy, because no way is he worth the money some punters have claimed he was asking.

I have no problem with he club not paying a high wage to him because he isn't worth it. In the past we may well have met his demands because as I said I think our problem has been being generous to average players as well as the stars.

However not entering a bidding war for D Hodgeon has got nothing to do with paying an appropriate level wages for a top class player.

You get what you pay for.

Dave

[DaveO]

jaws1 posted:

gpartin posted:
Ifrebalancing the team is the idea behind it then Wigan should be applauded. Its not before time!!

In reality i dont think there is any money to spend on players in my previous thread i highlited who was leaving a rough guess (must say catagoricallly that it just my guess as to what players wages were)as to what the players were on Vaeliki £140.000
Fletcher £90.000
Withers £45.000
Ashton £30.000
comes to roughly £300.000 and the credit note around £70.000 (going off the deffered payments over the 3 seasons)£220.000 divided by 3
If we were to replace all 6 players (2 squad members short last year)it works out about on average £60.000
not much leeway .

Only if you are right with your figures.

For the past four years every man and his dog has been telling us DV is on a wage far in excess £140K.

All of a sudden Fletcher is good value well on £90K.

I'd also be surprised to see Withers on £45K which would put him on less than several young players at the club IMO.

Also where has deferring the payments over three years come from? Mo stated two years in the press. So that's £110K not £70K a season.

The only one I think you have close to correct is Ashton and I think you have been too generous there as I doubt he was a 20/25 player. That was due to change had he stayed.

I would not be surprised if you are at least £100K short in your estimate.

Now given, as I keep saying, there is this thing called the 20/25 just how many free slots do we have available in it for next season? We are not losing that many contracted 20/25 players so I can't see the logic is paying out for lower waged players and this leaving salary cap money unspent.

We may have four slots available IMO. Withers, Fletcher, DV's and one more as I don't think (looking at these years squad) we used all the 20/25 up. Four slots also assumes we do not promote any young player to be a 20/25 player.

Put it this way if we only have four 20/25 slots available and have £400K to spend that ought to equate to three very good players and one average one.

Is Coley a £100K a year player? Not by playing standard he isn't so I sincerely hope not in terms of what we are paying him!

Dave

[jaws1]

Dave
like i said about the players wages i could be out by a good majority.
Deferred payments were over last season latter stages ,this and next so thats how i derived my figure.
There are 4 players leaving 2 slots were not given 15 and 17 and also if as you say Ashton was not in the 20/25 going of his squad number?? so there could be 6/7 sapces to fill overall.
#O'Carroll should be upgraded and would not cost the earth .

[DaveO]

jaws1 posted:
Dave
like i said about the players wages i could be out by a good majority.
Deferred payments were over last season latter stages ,this and next so thats how i derived my figure.

The credit note was for 2007 and 2008 according to Mo. They didn't pay any deferred wages last season or they would not have been deferring them would they? Its over two years so its £110K a year average or it doesn't make any sense.

Dave

[jaws1]

DaveO posted:

jaws1 posted:
Dave
like i said about the players wages i could be out by a good majority.
Deferred payments were over last season latter stages ,this and next so thats how i derived my figure.

The credit note was for 2007 and 2008 according to Mo. They didn't pay any deferred wages last season or they would not have been deferring them would they? Its over two years so its £110K a year average or it doesn't make any sense.

Dave

See your point Dave they would have paid less money last year defeering it to this year and next we paid the penalty this year with a reduced squad and 4 points deduction.

[lucky 13]

1?
2Calders
3Baily
4Goulding
5Richards
6Trent
7Lulu
8Fielden
9Higham
10fekka
11Hock
12Coley
13 Lockers
14Hansen
15Millard ? if he stays .
16? 17? 18? 19? 20? We have Colbon Prescott Ocarrol Tomkins (who I have eard is on a good whack but will he still be here ?)and Mcilorum of which may be one or two would be in the twenty max I guess giving the reserve hooker spot to Mcilorum if we could get rid of Millard would free up 4 or 5 places I would imagine we would see a decent prop, Walker and a full back/centre added . Have I missed anybody?

[jinkin jimmy]

lucky 13 posted:
1?
2Calders
3Baily
4Goulding
5Richards
6Trent
7Lulu
8Fielden
9Higham
10fekka
11Hock
12Coley
13 Lockers
14Hansen
15Millard ? if he stays .
16? 17? 18? 19? 20? We have Colbon Prescott Ocarrol Tomkins (who I have eard is on a good whack but will he still be here ?)and Mcilorum of which may be one or two would be in the twenty max I guess giving the reserve hooker spot to Mcilorum if we could get rid of Millard would free up 4 or 5 places I would imagine we would see a decent prop, Walker and a full back/centre added . Have I missed anybody?

Yes. Chev Walker.

[cpwigan]

Goulding is very skillful. If anything he could do with even more pace, particularly 40m+ pace

[cpwigan]

Just so people are clear. You only get 2 international quality players from each academy team. The secret is you bring them through on schedule so that you get full value from them and you do not have a backlog of youngsters requiring decent wages without adding to the first team. You need an injection of 2 academy youngsters to your starting XVII every season

[thegimble]

DaveO posted:

thegimble posted:
In terms of Coley replacing Fletcher it might be a backward step in some regards. But we need to sign decent players on a decent wage not 1 mega star and blow money we could use on 2 or 3 good players.

This argument simply does not wash because other teams are assembling squads that are better than ours by some distance at the moment.

If we signed a centre of real quality which I think everyone agrees we need (and Walker isn't really the answer there IMO) then Bailey could move to second row meaning we have him, Hansen and Hock for next season. They are all better second rows than Coley already IMO.

Saints sign the odd great player but get very good value for money players. Wilkin being the prime example. Also Fasavalu and Hargraves

Wilkin was a young raw player who was signed as a squad player whom they have brought on to be a first team regular. Hargreaves is the equivalent of Precott here and not a 1st team squad member (as in 1st 17 - he is no. 18).

Coley is 29 and heading toward the end of his career and will, if he is a direct replacement for Fletcher (which I think he is) be given a number in the 1st 17.

There is no comparison between these players situations.

Coley's wage could be better spent elsewhere, just as Withers and Millards wages should have gone toward a prop for this season.

I am not impressed with Nobby's recruitment record at all.

Dave

So you saying Noble is not good at recruting players.

Filden, Dobson were 2 he bought in.

His hands were tied last season due to deffered payments which killed him in getting 2 more players. You seem to have forgotten that. and we were in such a bad situation no player apart from the done deals before May that year would sign.

Yes sides are gettting star players. King in Warrington but they are letting a few go and they will suffer just as we did a few season ago. Same at HKR theyll sign 2-3 players but will lose a few more.

Saints dont do this they get players rejects such as Hargraves decent enogh player, never a superstar. they type we need to balance a squad in terms of the cap.

Wolves, Warriors, Leeds, Bulls and few more have signed more high profile players in recent years than Saints but they get better value for money. We need to follow that style rather than get 1-3 star players and have a small squad of real quality. If it were not for the high priced stars wed not have released so many over the last few years and totally destablise the squad.