Internationals

[gpartin]

I have been thinking about ways we can improve the crowds and profile of international games and I cast my mind back to the days when the services on the way down to Wembley were dominated by coach loads of school kids on school trips. Each of these kids were paying around £5 a ticket and the matches kicked off at 2.30 - 3.30 in the afternoon. Since then International matches have been moved to evenings, ticket prices have increased, and crowds have fallen massively.

Teachers do not want to run school trips on an evening. Parents do not want to pay over the odds for their children to go to a game.

I believe this problem can be tackled quite easily. The coverage the BBC has given Rugby League has been the best this year it has been for years, and lets face it why should they give coverage to a sport which is almost entirely shown by sky. Skyare obviously calling the shots regarding kick off times and althouigh I think Sky has been good for the game in many ways they have killed the international game. The RFL should let the BBC have the rights to International games. This could be at a reduced rate on the condition that games are played in the afternoon and all games are shown in full.

The RFL could then offer discounts for school trips and I can see no reason why we shouldn't start getting big crowds again.

The fact that this will get the kids watching and possibly playing rugby in the future should be reason enough to accept a little less from the BBC, the time they dedicated to the All Golds game and the pathetic crowds at that game and the NZ game have convinced me this is the way forward. The international game is dying and this is our only way of attracting people who would regard themselves as neutral or uninterested at a club level.

[roo67]

absolutley spot on. the england rah rah boys signed a deal to show their 5 nations games on sky. as soon as the contract was up they went back to the bbc because the overall exposure of the games went down. money in this case should come second to exposure.

[DaveO]

roo67 posted:
absolutley spot on. the england rah rah boys signed a deal to show their 5 nations games on sky. as soon as the contract was up they went back to the bbc because the overall exposure of the games went down. money in this case should come second to exposure.

Unfortunately the internationals have to make a profit. If they don't they won't happen.

The Aussies for example are not interested in playing them unless they are assured of profitability.

Rugby League is not in a position to subsidise the international fixtures. It doesn't have enough money in the bank and the sponsorship is not big enough.

I agree we would get more bum's on seats and a better exposure of the game with lower prices, better times to play games and so on but it is a bit of a catch 22 situation.

I have watched RL internationals at Wembley Stadium, Elland Road and Old Trafford and been sat in crowds of circa 65,000.

Now we play in small stadiums of limited capacity compared to those and wonder if we can fill them.

I think one of the reasons for this is the fact Internationals are no longer accompanied by a full tour. When the Aussies came over and played the top club sides and mixed those fixtures up with three test matches they made a lot of news, got a lot of people interested and it was a big event.

These days the Kiwi's or Aussies popping over for a quick three games in small capacity grounds to me sends the message that the game itself treats Internationals as a side show not a main event.

I get the impression those running the game are more interested in events like Millennium Magic than Internationals. Club games being played in a National stadium while Internationals are relegated to club stadia.

Dave

[gpartin]

DaveO posted:

roo67 posted:
absolutley spot on. the england rah rah boys signed a deal to show their 5 nations games on sky. as soon as the contract was up they went back to the bbc because the overall exposure of the games went down. money in this case should come second to exposure.

Unfortunately the internationals have to make a profit. If they don't they won't happen.

The Aussies for example are not interested in playing them unless they are assured of profitability.

Rugby League is not in a position to subsidise the international fixtures. It doesn't have enough money in the bank and the sponsorship is not big enough.

I agree we would get more bum's on seats and a better exposure of the game with lower prices, better times to play games and so on but it is a bit of a catch 22 situation.

I have watched RL internationals at Wembley Stadium, Elland Road and Old Trafford and been sat in crowds of circa 65,000.

Now we play in small stadiums of limited capacity compared to those and wonder if we can fill them.

I think one of the reasons for this is the fact Internationals are no longer accompanied by a full tour. When the Aussies came over and played the top club sides and mixed those fixtures up with three test matches they made a lot of news, got a lot of people interested and it was a big event.

These days the Kiwi's or Aussies popping over for a quick three games in small capacity grounds to me sends the message that the game itself treats Internationals as a side show not a main event.

I get the impression those running the game are more interested in events like Millennium Magic than Internationals. Club games being played in a National stadium while Internationals are relegated to club stadia.

Dave

Dave I can see your point re profitability but is it not likely that the International games are just regarded as a little bit extra to sky? Realistically they aren't going to be paying a great deal for what is essentially less than 10 matches a season. And what would sky's viewing figures be for the NZ Australia games and the Test match that only drew 16000? The answer is nowhere near the viewing figures the Challenge Cup final draws. And the difference with that game is that 90% of viewers are neutrals - imagine the potential viewing figures when 90% of the viewers are supporting GB. I think it is wrong to assume that sky are paying any more for these games than the BBC would be willing to pay if they were offered internationals separately from Super League. The fact is the international game is dying, but with SL crowds thriving there is absolutely no reason why this should be the case.

Re the touring part you are absolutely right, tours used to be great, I remember PNG playing Wigan at central park and drawing a decent crowd as well as internationals at the grounds you mention. It seems the RFL and international boards are pretty short sighted if they can't see the benefit of having well supported international RL.

[DaveO]

gpartin posted:
I think it is wrong to assume that sky are paying any more for these games than the BBC would be willing to pay if they were offered internationals separately from Super League. The fact is the international game is dying, but with SL crowds thriving there is absolutely no reason why this should be the case.

I wasn't assume Sky were paying any more for these games than the BBC would but merely pointing out the Internationals have to make a profit at the insistence of the Aussies (usually).

It might be an idea to play an International at the Millennium Stadium to widen the appeal of the game but there is a risk the game would not make a profit so instead we play them in small stadia that don't cost much but at the same time don't spread the word as they are all "up north".

As to selling them separately to the BBC I assume Sky would take the league games and International games as an "all or nothing" package. I am not convinced those running the game have the business acumen or skills to negotiate well enough to separate the deals out on a lucrative basis.

Re the touring part you are absolutely right, tours used to be great, I remember PNG playing Wigan at central park and drawing a decent crowd as well as internationals at the grounds you mention. It seems the RFL and international boards are pretty short sighted if they can't see the benefit of having well supported international RL.

Given the evidence of the RU world cup and its benefits for that game you have to wonder why it is so hard to get commitment to the International game, from the Aussies in particular.

As to touring games, one of my abiding memories of games at CP was when we played Australia and Inga (who had not been at the club long at all) scored a great individual try by chipping the ball over Renouf and regathering to score.

Unfortunately I think it was Henry Paul - also pretty much a new boy gifted the Aussies a couple of tries so they won but it was still a great game.

These days since we moved to summer and so are in-sync season-wise with the NRL it is impossible to arrange tours where the touring side plays the club sides like they used to. This is one of the major drawbacks of the switch to summer.

Mind you the players whinge about being away for a few weeks for the tri-nations these days so how they would cope with a proper tour I don't know.

Dave

[doc]

I remember PNG playing at Central Park.

It was back in the days when Stanley Gene had just started drawing his pension.

[Panchitta Marra]

gpartin posted:
I have been thinking about ways we can improve the crowds and profile of international games and I cast my mind back to the days when the services on the way down to Wembley were dominated by coach loads of school kids on school trips. Each of these kids were paying around £5 a ticket and the matches kicked off at 2.30 - 3.30 in the afternoon. Since then International matches have been moved to evenings, ticket prices have increased, and crowds have fallen massively.

Teachers do not want to run school trips on an evening. Parents do not want to pay over the odds for their children to go to a game.

I believe this problem can be tackled quite easily. The coverage the BBC has given Rugby League has been the best this year it has been for years, and lets face it why should they give coverage to a sport which is almost entirely shown by sky. Skyare obviously calling the shots regarding kick off times and althouigh I think Sky has been good for the game in many ways they have killed the international game. The RFL should let the BBC have the rights to International games. This could be at a reduced rate on the condition that games are played in the afternoon and all games are shown in full.

The RFL could then offer discounts for school trips and I can see no reason why we shouldn't start getting big crowds again.

The fact that this will get the kids watching and possibly playing rugby in the future should be reason enough to accept a little less from the BBC, the time they dedicated to the All Golds game and the pathetic crowds at that game and the NZ game have convinced me this is the way forward. The international game is dying and this is our only way of attracting people who would regard themselves as neutral or uninterested at a club level.

Spot on Gpartin, you dont see many Yawnion internationals played in the evenings. Yawnion international infrastructure is the main reason their game survives plus good sponsors.