Joe Westerman

[butt monkey]

And so the power of the media is on par with cps predictions that are posted on a forum. you lot make me laugh.

I bet it was cp who hyped Westerman and Burgess up thats why there soooo over rated.

Theres nothing wrong with being positive about our youngsters. And theres nothing wrong with posting what he thinks of these players.

People will be very quick to give him a :eusa2: if he said every last one of the Reserve players are cack.

Well, so far, Burgess has had very impressive (like Farrell at similar age) test performances. How many times will JT play for Wigan this season, never mind GB?

If you honestly suggesting that Burgess and JT are on a par - then you really do have rose tinted spectacles!

As for Westerman, my only comment was that Bent Tarret goes missing in "big matches" too - so whats new?

[Matthew]

Eventually, the expectations turns far too readily to criticism. I can see it at Wigan with Goulding which is a disgrace.

I don't think that it is expecting too much of Goulding to be able to prevent wellens running around him.

Goulding looked promising when he pushed DV out of the team - however of late the only time I have noticed him on the pitch is when he has been "defending" and missed yet another tackle.

Whilst it is up to the coaching staff to continue his development; he must shoulder some of the blame for all of the defensive blunders he makes - has he forgotten how to tackle?

[cpwigan]

Do carry on gentlemen

The youngsters this club signs are as good as any in the country. Traditionally, the grounding a Wigan boy gets is superior to that boys receive elsewhere. Personally, I believe that gap is closing. Every club in SL chases our young signings. So according to your little lynch mob they all must be wrong and you are correct?

So why do our youngsters stagnate and/or lose ground upon juniors they were superior than upon signing. Why is it no longer the case that when a player leaves Wigan RLFC his career is on a downward spiral? On the contrary. Many get better.

My own personal opinion is twofold 1) The first team is not good enough. Dean Bell stated in an interview before he left, "Get the first team right and the youngsters will come through" Alongside that ethos, 2) You need quality player development by world class backroom staff.

So who is to blame? WIGAN RLFC

[cpwigan]

Eventually, the expectations turns far too readily to criticism. I can see it at Wigan with Goulding which is a disgrace.

I don't think that it is expecting too much of Goulding to be able to prevent wellens running around him.

Goulding looked promising when he pushed DV out of the team - however of late the only time I have noticed him on the pitch is when he has been "defending" and missed yet another tackle.

Whilst it is up to the coaching staff to continue his development; he must shoulder some of the blame for all of the defensive blunders he makes - has he forgotten how to tackle?

If you actually looked at the try you would understand that Trent was at fault for that try. Defence is very simply. If the opposition pass the ball wide, the defenders after first moving forwards in a line, drift outwards again in a line whilst keeping the same gap between each defender. Trent decided not to do so which meant Goulding was left with a huge gap inside to cover as well as the gap to the outside. So close to the line and with so much space you have little or no chance to prevent anybody scoring.

Basic rugby league which of course the little lynch mob will understand

[butt monkey]

Do carry on gentlemen

The youngsters this club signs are as good as any in the country.

So why is everyone's argument that Wigan continue to sign average paced backs and small forwards!

I don't subscribe to the rubbish that it is solely the club's responsibility to give players added speed training under the guidance of someone like Bill Hartley etc. The players could and should be more dedicated to reach the heights, personally for success - and IF they need more help - seek it out. That's what professionalism Hanley brought to Wigan - he never smoked nor drunk and regularly trained on his own, Frano spent hours goalkicking etc etc. How many of the current crop give that little extra dedication to make it???? or are they more concerned with "copping off" with the local "groupies" and partying!!!

Wigan have used the likes of Dave Alstead in the past, how many times should the club move to employ part time coaches to improve players who rarely have the ability to "do the basics" anyway, then at the first time of showing ability, move off to Union after being refused a mega-contract just for that little extra work that they put in.

[cpwigan]

If you actually looked you will find I highlight several players some being up to 4 years from first team RL. I have never advocated putting them in together for a SL match.

I advocate giving Stanton/Ainscough opportunities both are wingers. A position you can use to bring youngsters into elite RL. We have always done that with Edwards then Botica being examples.

I believe in Goulding especially if his strength/speed was maximised rather than minimised as it currently is.

I believe in Sam Tomkins but 2 years down the track so to speak before he is a full time regular.

Paul Prescott has proven he can make it. O'Carrol continues to defy my feeling he will be too small.

McIlorum will be an outstanding hooker if his attacking play is developed.

I personally believe in Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop. Both could be far better than they are and indeed could be fantastic players.

Nowsorry for saying we have 6 to 8 youngsters good enough to make SL with Wigan RLFC but I will think you will find that Leeds and Saints have similar expectations.

Bellow that level we have Liam Farrell and Joe Mellor. Mellor might be ruined though by poor coaching. 3 years away gentlemen.

So do have a go, do make petty sniping comments but try offering some reasoned arguments also. Now that will be entertaining.

[cpwigan]

Do carry on gentlemen

The youngsters this club signs are as good as any in the country.

So why is everyone's argument that Wigan continue to sign average paced backs and small forwards!

I don't subscribe to the rubbish that it is solely the club's responsibility to give players added speed training under the guidance of someone like Bill Hartley etc. The players could and should be more dedicated to reach the heights, personally for success - and IF they need more help - seek it out. That's what professionalism Hanley brought to Wigan - he never smoked nor drunk and regularly trained on his own, Frano spent hours goalkicking etc etc. How many of the current crop give that little extra dedication to make it???? or are they more concerned with "copping off" with the local "groupies" and partying!!!

Wigan have used the likes of Dave Alstead in the past, how many times should the club move to employ part time coaches to improve players who rarely have the ability to "do the basics" anyway, then at the first time of showing ability, move off to Union after being refused a mega-contract just for that little extra work that they put in.

Coaching is about educating players. Some are lucky. Shaun Edwards was a product of his father. Jackie educated/coached Shaun and the things he could not do himself he got others to do for him. Andrew Farrell is a product of Peter Farrell by and large. I could go on but you will ignore it so what is the point.

Every players needs education. No player can simply accumulate all that knowledge in one go. It has to be delivered to them. That is the whole purpose of coaching, player development. If it is not then why even bother having coaches which is where your argument leads to.

You honestly have no idea how dedicated some of these youngsters actually are. Sam Tomkins may as well have been Shaun Edwards such is his dedication. Liam Thompson an under 16 we signed is more dedicated than anybody I have ever seen. Just because players do not make it, it does not mean they are not dedicated. Sam Reay and Chris Tuson are incredibly dedicated but both will not have SL careers.

Are SL players dedicated? Gary Connolly was not MR Clean Living. Lee Briers?

Give someone the best education/the best environment and they will thrive 99.9% of the time. Graham Lowe and his team and then John Monie and co provided that environment and hey presto even the Martin Hall's, Ged Byrne's, Billy McGinty's and Neil Cowie's looked great.

You know absolutely nothing BM, and I mean nothing.

Tomkins and Mossop must be midgets LOL
Prescott is a decent size too
Stanton and Ainscough are slugs LOL

What do you want 6 Fekas? 7 Chambers LOL

Priceless

[butt monkey]

Do carry on gentlemen

The youngsters this club signs are as good as any in the country.

So why is everyone's argument that Wigan continue to sign average paced backs and small forwards!

I don't subscribe to the rubbish that it is solely the club's responsibility to give players added speed training under the guidance of someone like Bill Hartley etc. The players could and should be more dedicated to reach the heights, personally for success - and IF they need more help - seek it out. That's what professionalism Hanley brought to Wigan - he never smoked nor drunk and regularly trained on his own, Frano spent hours goalkicking etc etc. How many of the current crop give that little extra dedication to make it???? or are they more concerned with "copping off" with the local "groupies" and partying!!!

Wigan have used the likes of Dave Alstead in the past, how many times should the club move to employ part time coaches to improve players who rarely have the ability to "do the basics" anyway, then at the first time of showing ability, move off to Union after being refused a mega-contract just for that little extra work that they put in.

Coaching is about educating players. Some are lucky. Shaun Edwards was a product of his father. Jackie educated/coached Shaun and the things he could not do himself he got others to do for him. Andrew Farrell is a product of Peter Farrell by and large. I could go on but you will ignore it so what is the point.

Every players needs education. No player can simply accumulate all that knowledge in one go. It has to be delivered to them. That is the whole purpose of coaching, player development. If it is not then why even bother having coaches which is where your argument leads to.

You honestly have no idea how dedicated some of these youngsters actually are. Sam Tomkins may as well have been Shaun Edwards such is his dedication. Liam Thompson an under 16 we signed is more dedicated than anybody I have ever seen. Just because players do not make it, it does not mean they are not dedicated. Sam Reay and Chris Tuson are incredibly dedicated but both will not have SL careers.

Are SL players dedicated? Gary Connolly was not MR Clean Living. Lee Briers?

Give someone the best education/the best environment and they will thrive 99.9% of the time. Graham Lowe and his team and then John Monie and co provided that environment and hey presto even the Martin Hall's, Ged Byrne's, Billy McGinty's and Neil Cowie's looked great.

You know absolutely nothing BM, and I mean nothing.

Tomkins and Mossop must be midgets LOL
Prescott is a decent size too
Stanton and Ainscough are slugs LOL

What do you want 6 Fekas? 7 Chambers LOL

Priceless

Any you are what I called you ages ago Mr. CPWigan - Pompous and i might also add conceited and arrogant to that! - you NEVER accept anyone else's opinion or "line of thinking - there is the CP way or no way and you revel in the "fawning" that some on here afford you. Go and hold hands with your soothsayer "buddy" mano and hope for the best for the club - your attitude is that everything is down to the club - players are not responsible for their own well being or future, either in the game or away from it!!!

I too have seen many great juniors careers "come to nothing", and many were far more talented and deserving than some of the "stars" you constantly hype!!! - just because you have no life of your own and frequent all levels of Wigan Warriors matches - you "think" that you know better and your opinion cannot be faulted.

You just need to admit that you're wrong from time to time. But I wont hold my breath.

[cpwigan]

Pompous conceited and arrogant. Indeed. Guess what lol I act like that just to wind up idiots who know nothing and even better it works perfectly.

The reality is my views come from listening to people who know what they are talking about and from seeing some of the people you happily criticise and write off from when they were 11 years old.

I asked you to argue constructively. You cannot.

I apologise for not being able to suffer fools gladly. You will be able to know if you are a fool because you will find me pompous, conceited and arrogant lol

[ancientnloyal]

:eusa17: