Will this team ever be good enough?

[Matthew]

I am just hoping that we are not totally thrashed.

If we can restrict stains to less than 50; then I will be surprised.

We should debating our chances of winning - not staring down the barrels of a record defeat - because the way stains are playing and the way we are defending; it could be a very long night for us on Friday

[mike binder]

you need to stay off the beer

[KOOCH]

I am starting to have my doubts this team will ever challenge seriously for honours with this generation of players.

We all have our opinions who should be replaced if in an ideal world that could happen but what concerns me is whether the core of the side is good enough.

Everyone seems to think Carmont is the find of the season, Hock is the worlds best 2nd row, Richards is a great full back or winger but these players are as much a part of the under performing excuse for a team that conceded 29 points without reply today as anyone else.

The same be said of many players who are not the ones everyone focuses on as being not good enough for the team. Those I mention above along with Feka, Goulding, McIllorum, Coley, Hansen, Lockers and TL are apparently the core of our team for the next few seasons.

I am starting to think it isn't just that Fielden has never regained his GB form or that Mathers is poor or Higham isn't the words greatest hooker that is the real problem. The deficiencies of these players such as they are, are what everybody focuses on when in fact the problem is far worse.

The problem is the players we actually think are good or even excellent players simply are not.

They are not good enough to beat an under strength side like HKR and have conceded 29 points unanswered against the worst attack in the league.

They only scrape a draw against a similarly understrength Castleford who prop up the competition.

I can't believe the reason for these poor results is the form of two or three players. The rest of the team are just as responsible.

The coach must take the blame as well but there are plenty of threads on Noble so I wanted to focus on the players and how much is down to them. We have after all signed the majority of the side that lost today up for next season.

At the moment I am struggling to see why.

Dave

I currently reside in the west midlands with a wife who does not understand my passion and loyalty to this once great club.Nor do my drinking partners understand my loyalty.The thing is i never doubt that we will come good again.But it gets bloody frustrating to see the kind of fluent rugby the stains play.I do not have any answers to our current predicament.I could blame Nobby and have done so on more than one occassion.I am now feeling sorry for nobby because i know that he's a good coach.And i'm sure he's just as frustrated as we are.What the answer is i genuinely don't know.And i'm beginning to ask myself what the hell am i doing contributing to this topic when i have no answer.But i do believe!I've got to believe. Or die frustrated.We will come good again just have fiath.God i do hope we turn up on friday.It's a long lonely drive back to the midlands trying to explain to two rugby novices that we were the best club in the world. :eusa17: :eusa16: :eusa17:

[the-Bowtun-Warrior]

http://www.wiganwarriors.com/news_full.asp?newsid=4036

Pretty poor rsponse from IL imo.

What did you want him to say?

he didn't exactly pull any punches!

usual diplomatic choice of words!

[jackoh]

We have been saying this for most of the season , I agree with everything that has been posted about our under achieving team .
At he end of the day it`s the coach who must take responsibilty for our performances , after each defeat we see a different excuse of why we didn`t play .
Noble in my opinion has taken us as far as he can , it` s always one step forward and one back .
If we want to be great again we need a coach with innovative ideas and with motivation skills , Noble doesn`t have these coaching qualities .
sorry to the pro nobbies on the site who keep quoting stability , but having stability without success is not what I want to see .

[slimshady]

We have been saying this for most of the season , I agree with everything that has been posted about our under achieving team .
At he end of the day it`s the coach who must take responsibilty for our performances , after each defeat we see a different excuse of why we didn`t play .
Noble in my opinion has taken us as far as he can , it` s always one step forward and one back .
If we want to be great again we need a coach with innovative ideas and with motivation skills , Noble doesn`t have these coaching qualities .
sorry to the pro nobbies on the site who keep quoting stability , but having stability without success is not what I want to see .

Ok sack Nobby again this week! Who will replace him? Who's available?

[RJ]

IMO the reason for the teams lack of consistency is that for much of the time they do not play AS A TEAM. The number of times that a player has made a break only to find that there is no support is legion. If you look at the saints and leeds sides their players know that there will be someone there to take an offload/pass, they don't have to worry about whether the rest of the team are singing from the same hymn sheet. You can certainly put this down to coaching to some extent but the players need to have the right attitude to achieve this and at the moment I can't see this. We seem at times to be devoid of ideas in attack and missing the plays in defence and until the team start to support each other in all aspects of the game we will not improve.

[phibes]

I think the issue of player quality is always loaded for Wigan fans, because a lot of us can remember when we had quality across the park. The thing we're missing in terms of individuals is real leadership on the pitch, like we had with Farrell. This is a well-worn debate (and I don't want to open the captaincy debate again) but I feel the absence of leadership on the field goes some way to explaining our poor teamwork (particularly in defence).

At a broader level, IMO there has been a problem with the club culture for a few years now. It's not just the all the soft tries we let in, the schoolboy errors or the stupid penalties - as a team, we lack composure under pressure, we're not clinical (especially in attack) and we have such a soft underbelly that any opposition must fancy their chances regardless of the scoreline.

Regardless of the players we have, the team can't realise their potential collectively until they build some momentum week in/week out - as we did at the end of last season. And we can't build momentum until we stop playing in patches - as we have done all season. So, it's a catch-22 and I don't see an easy solution.

[DaveO]

I think the issue of player quality is always loaded for Wigan fans, because a lot of us can remember when we had quality across the park. The thing we're missing in terms of individuals is real leadership on the pitch, like we had with Farrell. This is a well-worn debate (and I don't want to open the captaincy debate again) but I feel the absence of leadership on the field goes some way to explaining our poor teamwork (particularly in defence).

I agree and while also not wishing to reopen the captaincy debate I can't believe anyone does not by now think its time for a change given the way we are playing.

At a broader level, IMO there has been a problem with the club culture for a few years now. It's not just the all the soft tries we let in, the schoolboy errors or the stupid penalties - as a team, we lack composure under pressure, we're not clinical (especially in attack) and we have such a soft underbelly that any opposition must fancy their chances regardless of the scoreline.

Regardless of the players we have, the team can't realise their potential collectively until they build some momentum week in/week out - as we did at the end of last season. And we can't build momentum until we stop playing in patches - as we have done all season. So, it's a catch-22 and I don't see an easy solution.

The two are clearly linked. the problem with the culture is leading to the patchy play.

What is worrying is that it is a catch22 so what needs to change? Next season from the current team we have playing now we are losing Barrett, Higham and Calderwood (and maybe Colbon) and only getting Riddle and Smith with Pryce a possibility. I think its unreasonable to expect these three to drag the rest of this underachieving team up to the next level. A lot rests on Riddle and Smiths shoulders but they can't compensate alone if the attitude and application from their team mates is wrong. Look at Barrett's face when playing - I get the impression he is totally fed up of what the rest of the team do on the pitch.

I guess that is where the coach comes in. It's up to him to sort this out. So if as some have argued the players are good enough then it really is Nobby's last chance next year IMO.

Dave

[Doveoverdave]

We have been saying this for most of the season , I agree with everything that has been posted about our under achieving team .
At he end of the day it`s the coach who must take responsibilty for our performances , after each defeat we see a different excuse of why we didn`t play .
Noble in my opinion has taken us as far as he can , it` s always one step forward and one back .
If we want to be great again we need a coach with innovative ideas and with motivation skills , Noble doesn`t have these coaching qualities .
sorry to the pro nobbies on the site who keep quoting stability , but having stability without success is not what I want to see .

Ok sack Nobby again this week! Who will replace him? Who's available?

Anderson next season!