ENG and NZ genral chat

[100% Warrior]

Never thought I'd ever agree with Ian Millward on anything but his comment about Super League being too reliant on overseas players is spot on.

So too, is his opinion that if England / Great Britain are to ever achieve anything on the international stage then the overseas quota should be reduced to 3 players and that's it, no more using my granny's dog was an Irish wolfhound to get round the quota.

Super League clubs have got to start investing heavily in recruitment from within the UK (France for the Dragons) and promote youngsters from their youth policies.

Hopefully with no more relegation all clubs can start doing this, including the likes of Quins, Crusaders and the Dragons.

[100% Warrior]

Tony Smith has got to take a lot of the blame for England's shambles of a world cup effort.

His selections gave me the impression he never knew what his best side was.

His insistence at substituting Higham for example was right out of the Noble book of daft substitutions regarding this player. He was obviously better than Roby in this series which is hardly surprising considering the season both players have had for their clubs with Roby not living up to his MoS tag.

Instead he stuck with reputations and picked players on past form not current form IMO.

I am not suggesting had Smith been wiser in his selection we would have been contenders but it's very frustrating to watch when you can't fathom the selections (a bit like WIgan last season at times!).

Dave

Wasn't too impressed with our chances when he announced the squad but had hoped he and the players would prove me wrong. Sadly it wasn't to be and we ended up looking a complete shambles.

It comes to something when there are quotes coming from Oz about this squad being the worst to have ever graced the Southern Hemisphere. A sad time for British rugby league

[WiganWarrior]

Wellens Pryce and Wilkin, wasted spaces in the team i think.

Wellens is too slow and this was shown badly when we played Oz.

Overall todays games errors cost us badly, we put ourselves under pressure alot of the time, comming up with error and NZ werent the cause.

[josie andrews]

At least its not just league where the teams are crap at international level


This is the rugby union result today


England (11) 14
Try: Easter Pens: Cipriani 2 Drop: Armitage

Australia (12) 28
Try: Ashley-Cooper Con: Giteau Pens: Giteau 6, Mortlock


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 728562.stm

[ian b]

i cant believe we are that far behind the aussies and nz.i think team selection had more to do with it.wellens is a useless tool at this level,jjb or hock would have done better than wilkin he looked lost,calderwood looked to light weight and gardener wasnt any better,roby was over shadowed by higham so how come he started the game?and how come he persists with graham,he just has not got enough experience.I know iam picking on stains players,but our completion rate was poor and it was their players who generally made the mistakes.ithink mcguire and burrow looked pretty good,i rate leon pryce but he did bugger all either.surely lee smith should be no1 unless injured and i would have took fox from hkr.I also agree we have to many overseas players,but i still think we have enough talent to put a better team than that.Finally i think if we play regular home internationals[france included]i think we would start to improve a lot more.

[highland convert]

Until the cap is scrapped nothing will change. While top or even mediocre players can earn so much more in union there is no draw. Knock it if you wish but two like sports where the imballance in terms of money is so great is always going to favour the richer. There are great union players out there that probably come across but with the money diference they will laugh at you if you suggest it. That's why the traffic is one way.
Jim

[exile in Tiger country]

Purdham at loose forward had a shocker, why Sinfield was dropped I don't know, was he injured? I know he too has been poor, but is substantially better than Purdham.
I though Calders did OK, defensively McGuire was awful IMO. Ade Garner was awful Wellens has shown he should never win another cap.
Gleeson and Westwood did Warrington proud and Burrow and Senior at least looked like they wanted to win.
Smith has shown he has no idea at international level as a coach, his substitutions were as bizarre as his decision to only take 4 props.

[wall_of_voodoo]

One thing this world cup has proven is that certain players are finished at the top flight, some were never upto standard in the first place and some players were - as i stated upon the squads announcement - nothing more than "political" selections.

Both hookers taken are interchange hookers - both average at best starting, but at their best coming from the bench. I seriously believe smith didn't know which hooker to start a game with!

The wingers were all very poor defensively, almost to the point of inept. Only lee smith provided the odd moment (when fit).

The centre partnership of gleeson and senior has been together on the international stage for years, apart from last years white-wash of the kiwis, they have never bothered anyone bar the french. Gleeson is too greedy at the wrong moments and senior uses his size/bulk that is effective at super league, but totally shambolic at this level where even the cheerleaders are bigger than he is.

Fullback is seriously a position up for grabs now, with the abject and dismal performances of wellens - who might fill that position in the future - i pray not the likes of paul sykes!!

Forwards, far too much chopping and changing. Why? It almost appeared that tony smith didn't back the "courage of his convictions" with his squad selection, with the willingness to play players for either the full tournament or the desire to drop underperforming players.

At least the tournament proved that, at the moment, danny mcguire is the best english stand off. Leon pryce wasn't even a close second!!

[platt-warrior]

Whilst i agree with some of the things you posted Voodoo I must say Gleeson was one of our better players,but the worst aspect of our play was the poor kicking game.Why oh why was Sinfield dropped? Imo he would have given our game a better dimension.

[Mike]

Sinfield was rubbish throughout the tournment. In fact, he was worse than rubbish - he choked when he was given the responsibility of the kicking game and we were even worse than we were when we left it up to Burrow.

I think it was a good decision to put purdham in. It didn't work out but it was a good decision. Sinfield is finished at international level.

Overall, the whole world cup competition has highlighted that the Super League is completely bereft any skill whatsoever. In fact its been fairly pathetic how little skill any of our players have, they can barely catch the ball. Its not an unfair reflecton of the standardof SL either - they can get away with it there because the opposition make just as many mistakes. Although the lower Aussie country leagues would not beat a SL team, I bet the basic skill level is far higher even there.

We have no quality youngsters coming through and no idea how to play rugby - we are entirely reliant on our referees' perverse desire to get a faster and faster play the ball. You don't need any skill if you can get up and run at a defensive line that is still retreating, or get a penalty that leaves you so close to the line you can just bash over anyway. The Aussies have shown everyone that a deep back line, plenty of dummy runners and a skilful pair of ball distributing half backs is by far the best and most entertaining style of game that can be played.

We need more emphasis and money spent on player development and coach development and we should forget about this generation - they will never challenge Australia for 5-10 years, they are just not anywhere near good enough.

I say reinterpret the lying-on rule to give more time to the defence as they do down under, and force our teams to become more skilful and creative in attack.