Are we looking strong??

[exile in Tiger country]

I agree with 90% of what you say; I'm less convinced about the value of a big-money, big-name overseas star. The success of Leeds & Saints has, IMO, been more due to their domestic players than their big name overseas players.

Saints success was built around Sculthorpe/Long/Cunningham/Wellens, not the likes of Lyon. With Leeds, it was Burrow/McGuire/Sinfield. Neither of them relied on a Barrett type superstar, as we tried and failed to do.

Two words: Matt Gidley. The majority of their tries came down his side and it sure as hell wasn't because of Ade Gardener's brilliance and tactical genius.

[josie andrews]

I applaud you CP, :eusa2: you put into words what I, and a lot of loyals fans think. I brought up the question regarding Orrell as you know, and the promise from the first forum has not been kept.

I wish I had the money Mr Lenegan has cos it would go straight back into this club that I love and I would try my damndest to make us the force we once were.

[cpwigan]

It is really tricky the notion of superstars etc. I do not think you can become dominant without them. Melbourne, Saints, Manly, Leeds. We had a real blend of players in the 80's but with an Ellery, an Edwards, a Gregory, all 3 we would have not won what we did.

I love to see Wigan lads in our team but I do not think it is realistic. A British core certainly is. A British core gives you long term stability. The most astute aspect of Graham Lowe was to sign Kiwis who were likely to stay far longer than Aussies. If people look, once we got away from that to signing a different Aussie every season things broke down.

The problem I have is that we got that British core by bring a sprinkling through, buying back Wiganers and buying British players. I think John Monie had it right when he argued 2 players per age group. So as an example, when we were luck we go Faz, Rads and Billy Whiz. Only 2 Wigan lads. What I think happens is that you then gradually get 1 or 2 more Wigan lads from other age groups and before you know you end up like Saints with lots of academy lads but with up to 10 years age gap between them.

I do think you sometimes have to bite the bullet and pay big transfer fees. If I had IL's money they would have to build a nuclear bunker to stop me signing Sam Burgess. I do think those star quality players make it easier to bring young lads through.

Dean Bell before he left for NZ used to say get your first team right and the young lads coming through will look after themselves. There's a lot of truth in that I feel. Goodway took Betts under his wing, Betts took Faz under his wing. Imagine the confidence Cunnigham gives some of the Saints youngsters.

[DaveO]

I agree with 90% of what you say; I'm less convinced about the value of a big-money, big-name overseas star. The success of Leeds & Saints has, IMO, been more due to their domestic players than their big name overseas players.

Saints success was built around Sculthorpe/Long/Cunningham/Wellens, not the likes of Lyon. With Leeds, it was Burrow/McGuire/Sinfield. Neither of them relied on a Barrett type superstar, as we tried and failed to do.

I disagree with that. The addition of Lyon is IMO what turned Saints from a good side into a champion side. He was a IMO a key player for them when here. They were fortunate to get him.

Leeds have benefited from signing Peacock to a similar degree IMO but they have not only got him but Webb and now Buderous in their side. Of course Peacock is not an overseas star but he is a big money star as was Sculthorpe for Saints. So were Long and KFC.

I think focusing on the overseas stars in these sides misses the point a bit in that these sides had both overseas and British star players. In other words they had star players! And more than one all on big money.

Dave

[jaws1]

I take on board CPs post and agree with most of the things that he says.I get the feeling that IL is trying to run the club on a shoestring and trying to balance the books not paying transfer fees etc how many players have we missed out on???? I understand that IL has a legacy left with players on high wages from the previous owner hopefully this will be addressed in the future when contracts run out.
We need an identity somewhere we can call home we have Orrell where work needs doing we could have played friendlies there if the ground was up to speck. CP mentioned Kudos and JJB fitness i would put the CHAPELHOUSE CAR SHOWROOM near the seven stars pub in the equation it is situated on one of the busiest access road into Wigan it has parking facilities .The building is deceptive as there is another building at the back
and whats more its big enough to include a mezzinine floor to house what some people want a WIgan Rugby Museum .Plus factors its in a prominent position near the JJB has parking space would be cheaper than a central Wigan location big enough to house a shop for merchandise /Museum/Meeting place .

[wall_of_voodoo]

Like others, I acknowledge most of what you say. But in some ways MO did have an unfair advantage as regards signings - no cap and no quotas.........

As for why the (seeming) reluctance of the club to purchase kudos (or whatever) maybe the cost of rates etc could be very prohibitive. I know that wigan's were very high years ago (and cost many business's to leave for just that reason). Have things changed? Or should the club just fritter money around on a multitude of things rather than concentrating on getting the more pressing matters right first? I do not know.

What I did read (and believe) is that IL was quoted as saying that the club was not making any major profits when he arrived and that his intention was to make sure that the club could "stand on it's own feet" without a wealthy investor propping it up, by the time he left.