Will Shaun Ainscough Play This Friday?

[GeoffN]

Mmmm Tom it seems you have an axe to grind. Clique / click. On here people debate their POV and there is no party line never has been never will. Surely having differing views makes things more enjoyable, particularly if ones views are well though out.

I am not a fan of Phelps personally. However, I think you will find many are. Many of those who are are people I get along with and we just accept that we have different views. So you seem to be misreading whatever you are reading.

I'm warming to Phelps now that he's finally being played in his best position, after unaccountably playing second fiddle to Mathers for so long.

Dave O argues in the same mannr here and rlfans and could never be accused of belonging to a clique. A maverick possibly but a follower never. He's a beligirent bugger but he does think through exactly what he posts and that makes his views worth reading.

Steady on now, you've just lost all credibility with that last bit! We'll be ejecting you from the clique if you start praising DaveO!

[cpwigan]

Very well put Tom but are coaches always correct. For example we see Gary Schofield ridiculed but he gives views directly opposed to those of Noble on many issues including Ainscough. Who is right / who is wrong. They both have credentials that give their views / opinions credence.

Personally I do not think you even have to have a coaching certificate to see the areas that Ainscough needs to improve. Having watched him for 3 years everything that fans are now aware of was evident from day 1 of his Wigan career. I personally was very critical of the amount of time he spent being selected for the academy team. The reserves is not a good standard, certainly not fit for creating SL players, the academy is even worse. Is there not a question why in 3 years have these weaknesses not been adressed? Surely that is the duty of care of a coach / club? I have to say Ainscough proved me wrong. I never thought he would be so successful transferring his attack to SL as he has been.

I do think it is safe to say based on decades of coaches that to publically highlight player weaknesses is not a good idea. Many coaches consider it a no no.

Should we just accept what a coach does / says simply because of their position. Imagine if we did that with our politicians

[cpwigan]

Geoff I apologise

Moi I think I am akin to the Alex Murphy of the forum which is a tad and somewhat disturbing. Yet bloody Murphy got paid for rambling and ranting. Mike has never given me a penny He may even put me down as Care in the Community and his good deed

In my gang there can be only 1

Not sure anybody else would want to or be insane enough to join.

[TomThumb]

CP, A lot of the creadance I have given noble is because of the teams we have played and the performances we have put in, but that doesn't mean that I don't think he should give shaun more game time. I think the position he plays doesn't help his game time, a coach normally goes with 2 or 3 props/2nd row/hooker on the bench and wingers are not normally selected, I am sure, like Sam T, if ainscough was in the stand off position or similiar and had set the world alight like he has in attack, then he would be a bench spot guaranteed, but he's a winger and he has to accept that he is either in the starting 13 or he is not in the squad.

Like I said in an earlier post CP, I feel nobles ability to improve/develop playes is somewhat questionable, but I also like to think that with a great deal of coaching and help that ainscough can overcome these short-comings and be the world class player I feel he is destined to be, without the massive confidence knocks of having a similiar game to the one he had in the reserve match against saints, which I thought he looked shakey under the high ball.

I see the impact shaun has had, similiar to that of Kevin Penny, i just don't want to see what has happened to Kevin recently, happen to shaun.

Brian N

[DaveO]

Well well well! I never thought such an opinion would create such feedback.... Excuse me for agreeing with Noble as it seems such agreement is against the "click" of this forum.

DaveO: regarding your comment about saints new signing soliola! did he have glaring issues with his game?

It doesn't matter if he did or didn't because I was using him as an example of why this duty of care excuse of Noble's is nonsense. That excuse is all about Ainscough being a young player not if he has issues with his game.

Now if Ainscough looked like a fish out of water at this level Noble may have a point but Ainscough looks more than comfortable playing SL. He has outplayed the likes of Gardner for example and has been better at making opportunities for himself than Roberts.

Soliola must have adapted to the rigours of the NRL in a similar way but the difference is he clearly was not dropped simply because he was 18 and the coach felt the need to exercise some misplaced duty of care.

In any case Ainscough does not have "glaring" issues with his game any more so than several other players such as Smith or Phelps. He is not the finished article but what issues he has with his game are being blown out of all proportion.

I don't see noble completely dropping Tomkins even though he is still young. I think the duty of care comment is attributed to the fact that noble knows were shaun's abilities and weeknesses lie and he has a duty to improve them and make him a better and giving him time to work on these issues, is fair in my opinion.

If the duty of care comment is related to aspects of Ainscoughs game (which I don't think it is) then Noble is failing in his duty by dropping him because he simply will not improve at reserve level for the reasons stated by CPW. It is clear he has reached a level where he can only be tested and improve by playing SL.

lets be honest Noble and the wigan coaching staff work with these players everyday and you think you know better because you post on forums and watch 80 mins of gametime each week??

So the coach is always right, yes?

Well some of us have been watching the game for decades and on occasion we get it right and likewise coaches are not infallible.

Regarding your comment DaveO on making it an issue and polarising views, I have had to post my case so many times because it doesnt agee with the "click" that I am making shaun's weeknesses more of an issue than they really are. I would like to point out again that I can understand noble going with a more solid backline of Phelps, Richards and Roberts against sides which are generally very good at using the kicking game to score tries.

Again the implication is Ainscough is weaker in defence than he actually is. He isn't particularly bad at it and other players have made similar mistakes to him.

For example

Phelps, P6, missed tackles 6, errors 6, tries 2. Ainscough P9, missed tackles 7, errors 11, tries 13.
Roberts P12 missed tackles 8, errors 11, tries 4.

Average those statistics out and there is nothing in them defensively. Ainscough averages slightly more errors per game (1.2) than Phelps (1) but misses fewer takes per game ( .77 v 1 per game) for example.

But then look at the tries scored.

And look at these stats v Roberts:

Ainscough:

Runs from dummy half 30
Tackle Busts 36
Clean Breaks 13

Roberts

Runs from dummy half 37
Tackle Busts 16
Clean Breaks 9

Average those out on games played and he beats him in every one of those statistics and by some margin in two of them.

I agree against other sides shaun should be given a chance, I am not saying he shouldn't, but I can understand against wakefield, hull kr and st helens that noble would opt for a more solid back three.

The idea the back line is weaker with Ainscough in it is a myth as shown by those statistics above.

They also show if Noble has a duty of care he needs to exercise some for Phelps and Roberts. They clearly have as many issues with their game as Ainscough is supposed ot have.

Is it fair that Roberts hasn't been given a chance by many posters on here, even though he has moved him and his family half way round the world to play for us and was a proven player in the NRL?

As a proven pro he should (like Riddell) have hit the ground running and not be being outplayed by a 19 year old kid with "glaring" issues with his game.

Are you seriously suggesting Roberts keeps his place out of sympathy for his domestic situation or because he came here from Oz?

Is it fair that phelps who was once the focal point of many posters here as a "waste of space" is now playing very well and looking like a shrewd piece of business, that he got as much stick on here as he did?

He is no better than Ainscough and also has issues with his game (his tackling technique for one) . Why the special treatment for him?

I think with the results we have had recently and with our ability to score tries and performing better defensively, that keeping with the same side in the cup and in a vital super league games is fair enough in my opinion.

Keeping a winning team is fine but that is just what Noble did not do. He dropped Ainscough after scoring 4 tries when he tried to drop him for that game. He clearly had it in mind to drop him regardless of how he or the team played. As to being defensively better the implication this is all down to Roberts replacing Ainscough can't be taken seriously.

Dave

[Reevezie 2.0.0.8]

Mmmm Tom it seems you have an axe to grind. Clique / click. On here people debate their POV and there is no party line never has been never will. Surely having differing views makes things more enjoyable, particularly if ones views are well though out.

I am not a fan of Phelps personally. However, I think you will find many are. Many of those who are are people I get along with and we just accept that we have different views. So you seem to be misreading whatever you are reading.

I'm warming to Phelps now that he's finally being played in his best position, after unaccountably playing second fiddle to Mathers for so long.

Dave O argues in the same mannr here and rlfans and could never be accused of belonging to a clique. A maverick possibly but a follower never. He's a beligirent bugger but he does think through exactly what he posts and that makes his views worth reading.

Steady on now, you've just lost all credibility with that last bit! We'll be ejecting you from the clique if you start praising DaveO!

I agree, think he is quite solid at fullback....... :colg:

[emperorkel]

I really am sorry that Ainscough is not playing and I think his treatment by Noble is deplorable. He has played him for nine games, watched him score tries for fun and then decided he has serious issues with his game. I agree his defence is his weakest area but even this would be improved or less noticeable if he had Bailey alongside him because although I like Carmont there have been times when his defending has been less than professional and he tends to leave gaps.

But I always thought that you practiced to improve your deficiencies but no one seems to have bothered with Ainscough he should be given extra training time to concentrate on his weaknesses and to make them less of a problem.

Noble has been very lucky this year, injuries forced him to include Ainscough and Sam and they dug him out of a hole and kept him in a job. I think Phelps has the makings of an excellent full back, he covers well has safe hands and supports and comes into the line very well. He is not as safe as pat but he returns the ball better because he does it with more pace than Pat because he is quicker from a standing start than Pat. Again we have found this out by accident, he was here last year but noble insisted on playing Mathers when it was clear he was not up to it at Wigan.

We are stuck with Roberts for another 3 years and we hopefully keep Pat for as long as we can but this restricts the chances for Ainscough. Personally I would rather see Ainscough on either wing than anyone else because I enjoy watching him and if his defence is weak just remember it’s a team game and it should be possible to cover for him until he improves. He is good enough for SL now so get him in.

[turf]

I really am sorry that Ainscough is not playing and I think his treatment by Noble is deplorable. He has played him for nine games, watched him score tries for fun and then decided he has serious issues with his game. I agree his defence is his weakest area but even this would be improved or less noticeable if he had Bailey alongside him because although I like Carmont there have been times when his defending has been less than professional and he tends to leave gaps.

But I always thought that you practiced to improve your deficiencies but no one seems to have bothered with Ainscough he should be given extra training time to concentrate on his weaknesses and to make them less of a problem.

Noble has been very lucky this year, injuries forced him to include Ainscough and Sam and they dug him out of a hole and kept him in a job. I think Phelps has the makings of an excellent full back, he covers well has safe hands and supports and comes into the line very well. He is not as safe as pat but he returns the ball better because he does it with more pace than Pat because he is quicker from a standing start than Pat. Again we have found this out by accident, he was here last year but noble insisted on playing Mathers when it was clear he was not up to it at Wigan.

We are stuck with Roberts for another 3 years and we hopefully keep Pat for as long as we can but this restricts the chances for Ainscough. Personally I would rather see Ainscough on either wing than anyone else because I enjoy watching him and if his defence is weak just remember it’s a team game and it should be possible to cover for him until he improves. He is good enough for SL now so get him in.

I think the paragraph I have highlighted in bold is absolutely spot on. Well said. :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

I agree with the last paragraph highlighted in bold as well. Another good point. :eusa2: :eusa2: :eusa2:

Also, in my opinion, if you all say he has to learn in defence, then by not putting him in SL, i.e, on the big stage, then he will never learn from his defensive errors.

Also, I may add, when Ainscough does make these errors, he needs and experienced team member rubbing his head saying, "keep your chin up Shaun" and "it doesn't matter", you know supporting him when he makes an error.

[cpwigan]

Mmmm Tom it seems you have an axe to grind. Clique / click. On here people debate their POV and there is no party line never has been never will. Surely having differing views makes things more enjoyable, particularly if ones views are well though out.

I am not a fan of Phelps personally. However, I think you will find many are. Many of those who are are people I get along with and we just accept that we have different views. So you seem to be misreading whatever you are reading.

I'm warming to Phelps now that he's finally being played in his best position, after unaccountably playing second fiddle to Mathers for so long.

Dave O argues in the same mannr here and rlfans and could never be accused of belonging to a clique. A maverick possibly but a follower never. He's a beligirent bugger but he does think through exactly what he posts and that makes his views worth reading.

Steady on now, you've just lost all credibility with that last bit! We'll be ejecting you from the clique if you start praising DaveO!

I agree, think he is quite solid at fullback....... :colg:

Another traitor to the clique or are you all in it and I am not and you arer all conspiring against me :doz:

[turf]

So you seem to be misreading whatever you are reading you are all conspiring against me :doz:.

I ain't.