what state rugby union ?

[ian b]

I was listening to GMR and they said union was holding crisis talks next week over the state of the game and a major worry was how poor it had become with pretty much no attacking play and even less trys.They say it is like watching a game of ping pong!.Kingsley Black said he would rather stay at home and mow his lawn than watch the rubbish on show.And today Gloucester said they are after Tadulala from Bradford even though he has never played union in his life, where is their youth policy ?.Just wondered what other people thought cos i find it bizzare.

[ancientnloyal]

I find it funny. It is ridiculous the amount of tries scored and it is a boring spectacle to watch... others on here will disagree for obvious reasons but i'd rather watch romanian mens' skittle ball league 3 matches before england in the RU

[thegimble]

Ever since South Africa won the world cup against England teams have followed both teams style of play. Which is if your in your own half with the ball kick it aways as soon as possible and get out of your own half. ITs now become a safety game where teams are scared of giving penalties away in their own third of the field as its basically a 3 point giveaway.

Hardly any team will now atack from their own half unless they have to and its gettting bogged down. Teams are now entering the field with the attitude of not losing a game.

Just like to remind the many on here that a certain Shaun Edwards is involved in the welsh and wasps set up and both seemes to play the safety method now instead of letting the players use the ball.

[stevethegas]

Regardless of historical bias (I did grow up in Wigan) the problems that beset Union are the ones which League took on board a long while ago.
The big difference in League scores happened when it was decided to get rid of wing forwards and have a six man scrum. Eight of today's 90Kg+ athletes is proving too powerful and the amateur game is suffering many damaged spines as a result.
The other major issue is the loose ruck. It is simply too unreliable and often fails and often produces low and high grade injury. Penalties and scrums often follow a collapse of bodies that must concern anyone as to what the players are risking.
And I agree, 3 points for a penalty overvalues it.

So, where does Union go from here? The answer is that they know perfectly well. But to make the changes would be to admit what we all know, that League is the way forward and it's the greatest game of all. I've a suspicion that it's not going to happen any time soon. Still they've only had 110 years to get it right, let's not rush them!

[ian b]

Regardless of historical bias (I did grow up in Wigan) the problems that beset Union are the ones which League took on board a long while ago.
The big difference in League scores happened when it was decided to get rid of wing forwards and have a six man scrum. Eight of today's 90Kg+ athletes is proving too powerful and the amateur game is suffering many damaged spines as a result.
The other major issue is the loose ruck. It is simply too unreliable and often fails and often produces low and high grade injury. Penalties and scrums often follow a collapse of bodies that must concern anyone as to what the players are risking.
And I agree, 3 points for a penalty overvalues it.

So, where does Union go from here? The answer is that they know perfectly well. But to make the changes would be to admit what we all know, that League is the way forward and it's the greatest game of all. I've a suspicion that it's not going to happen any time soon. Still they've only had 110 years to get it right, let's not rush them!

well put

[Wigan_forever1985]

Its difficult to see how Union can improve their game without adopting League rules of some form. As has been said all the short-comings of the game were addressed by league, union it seems will cut off its nose to spite its face and rather than admit that in taking league priciples it will improve the game, they would rather make out their game is just more "technical" and "tactical".

Thing is union will continue to draw crowds as it has a fully developed international scene and whats more they won a world cup in it which gives them at least 20 years before they have to win another and still be popular.

The only thing missing from the rugby league jigsaw is an international scene, people like to support England, if we had a england team that could win and/or there were more than 3 teams that were competitive we i feel would outshine union easily

[jaws1]

The thing that RU has over RL is the Internationals,is better marketed,played countrywide,better media and sponsorship.
IMO Wigan kick started the RU game and brought it to a higher level when we won the sevens at Twickers and showed the RU our fitness level surpassed theirs a lot of RL coaches and influence went into RU from that point.
At grass root level it is no different than RL.

[DaveO]

Ever since South Africa won the world cup against England teams have followed both teams style of play. Which is if your in your own half with the ball kick it aways as soon as possible and get out of your own half. ITs now become a safety game where teams are scared of giving penalties away in their own third of the field as its basically a 3 point giveaway.

Watched the first half of the Wales v Oz game and Oz were by far the better team yet Wales were still in touch at half time only 11 points down at 12-23 because they kicked 4 penalties. It was a total misrepresentation of the domination Oz had. Oz had the right number of points on the board for their efforts but there is no way Wales deserved 12 points.

Hardly any team will now atack from their own half unless they have to and its gettting bogged down. Teams are now entering the field with the attitude of not losing a game.

Just like to remind the many on here that a certain Shaun Edwards is involved in the welsh and wasps set up and both seemes to play the safety method now instead of letting the players use the ball.

Edwards is defensive coach for Wales so if its safety first on attack I can't see how he is to blame.

Read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_u ... 385424.stm

for some interesting quotes from Edwards on defense and comments from others on kicking.

Edwards: "Australia's defence was magnificent," he said. "The tackler was incredibly proactive and it wasn't just the back row but from one to 15. Even the scrum-half was very dynamic over the ball."

He is right. Their tackling was very good and you can tell he wants Wales to be the same.

As to kicking some telling comments in that article:

Gartland (Welsh head coach):

"Everyone talks about kicking - Australia kicked 40 times and we kicked 22 times.

"We try to play a bit of rugby by not kicking the ball away as much - but it's not a winning performance is it?"

McBryde added: "There's a shift with regards to where you win possession, it's not necessarily from the set piece but from kicks and gathering kicks."

Injured full-back Lee Byrne's siege-gun boot was badly missed, and his stand-in James Hook - a converted fly-half whose creative skills could be utilised at centre in the Six Nations - acknowledged the changing demands of the modern game.

"Australia kicked an awful lot, there are some great kickers in their team," Hook told BBC Sport Wales.

"[Kicking is a] big part of the game, there's nothing you can do about it at the moment.

"It's a bit frustrating [as a runner] but international rugby is about winning - and that's it really."

So there you go. The nickname we give to RU of "Kick and Clap" seems more appropriate now than ever before.

However they are considering changes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8375126.stm

From the article:

An RFU taskforce brought together in the wake of the 'Bloodgate' scandal suggested the introduction of rugby league-style "rolling substitutions" as one possible way of dealing with the increasingly physical nature of the modern game.

In addition to player welfare, Thomas said the council would discuss the preponderance of kicking in the game and the lack of tries in the Test arena this autumn. England, for instance, scored just one try in 240 minutes of rugby with a much-criticised win over Argentina the sole victory of an uninspiring campaign.

The number of reset scrums and the frequency of penalties at the breakdown area have also been cited as particular concerns for a sport that is keen to try to broaden its global appeal.

Dave

[georgeorwell]

Some years ago Martin Johnson (Johnstone) bemoaned the fact that there are two versions of rugby. He said it would be great to play against the big northern league teams, with their stadia and fantastic crowds. Now he knows what to do in order to make this happen. Advise the boring old farts at Twickers, who will decide the future of RU, to adopt rugby league, then once again we would have a united game. Will they do this?. Not in a million years. They would have their tongues barbecued rather than accede to we uncouth northern hordes. Imagine Wigan beating Wasps or Quins in London; what a hoot that would be eh!

[georgeorwell]

And another thing! Can you imagine the look on the face of that arrogant, supercillious, rugby league hating Jeremy Guscot?