Bias towards overseas players?

[GeoffN]

Six wins from Seven and the fans still complain!

I'm glad you put a smiley in, Matthew!

Some people do confuse complaining with pointing out ways we can still improve...MM himself says there are a lot of things we got wrong, yet he doesn't get accused of complaining.

[Panchitta Marra]

I appreciate that a coach who creates a league leading, entertaining, super fit and highly motivated team out of the same players as failed to fill us with awe last year has pretty much infinite credit, but the one thing which concerns me about MM thus far has been his Nobleesque tendency to pick his Antipodeans (save for Feca of course) wherever and whenever. I am not privy to the various injuries which might explain this but...
Bailey v Farrell - he is on his last legs, slow and getting slower, and rarely creates anything. Farrell is playing every week in the rough and tough National League 1 and looking the part. He is also one for the future.
Carmont v Goulding - Carmont is a good player when fuly fit, but is injury prone and takes a while to shake off an injury, during which he can be a liability. Goulding has been playing very well, scoring tries and improving in defence. He is another player for the future.
Phelps v someone else, perhaps Goulding again - he hasn't looked fully fit, but has been slotted back in extra sharpish, only to get injured again. Excellent when fit.
Shortly, we may have McIllorum v Piggy to add to this list.
We have a genuine chance of topping the league - win our home games and the winnable away games and the Minor Premiership will be ours - and to do so we will need to make sure we have no weak links. The pro-Antipodean bias bothers me, as I can foresee a combination of Bailey, Carmont and Piggy costing us games.
I may be worrying unduly but the details can catch you out.

The team is winning, plus the trip to the Jungle is a usually a difficult one for us.
Madge must be doing some good in the selection of his players.

[The Eclipse]

It's a major problem throughout British Rugby League and that problem is with the mindset.
Sky already have their man of the match awards picked out before the game and the Albert Goldthorpe Medal is a joke.
Only one or two British players are in the top 10, does anyone really believe that Ben Jeffries, Michael Dobson and Michael Witt have been way better than Kyle Eastmond, Sam Tomkins and Sean O'Loughlin ?
All three barely rate a mention.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I am not criticising, because we are miles ahead of where we were last year in terms of performance (though only 2 points ahead of our total for these same 7 games last year), and I am loving it. MM can pick Jimmy Birts for all I care, as long as we stay top or near the top. I am glad few if any of us are too concerned and it is early days. FWIW I think our best chance of a Cup this year is the Minor Premiership, and so want us to stay exactly where we are. Looking at our fixtures, we could well get to Round 12, and the first Cup break, with only 2 defeats, and could well have a bit of daylight between us and the rest. Which would be very sweet indeed.
As I didn't go to Cas, I was writing in ignorance of performances there so may be miles off and George and Bails could haveplayed blinders.

[ancientnloyal]

it's the points for the albert goldthorpe that may skew players. Soemone may have great games 3 times this season, earning 8 or 9 points, whereas consistant performers go unnoticed (apart from roberts)

[j658]

I appreciate that a coach who creates a league leading, entertaining, super fit and highly motivated team out of the same players as failed to fill us with awe last year has pretty much infinite credit, but the one thing which concerns me about MM thus far has been his Nobleesque tendency to pick his Antipodeans (save for Feca of course) wherever and whenever. I am not privy to the various injuries which might explain this but...

I think the dropping of Feka can't just be a side point here. MM has dropped a senior, Antipodean fan favourite in favour of 2 academy products who have never won over all the fans. Our 1st choice back row are all academy products and then add Mossop to that.

Bailey v Farrell - he is on his last legs, slow and getting slower, and rarely creates anything. Farrell is playing every week in the rough and tough National League 1 and looking the part. He is also one for the future.

Bailey did make Amos 3rd try on Sunday! I think of Bails as being our Gary Neville! His legs may be shot but he works hard he's got a real rugby brain on him. I think your last sentence about Farrell is bang on. Him and Ben Davies are exaclty where they need to be for the moment and we'll see the benefit like we did with Mossop.

Carmont v Goulding - Carmont is a good player when fuly fit, but is injury prone and takes a while to shake off an injury, during which he can be a liability. Goulding has been playing very well, scoring tries and improving in defence. He is another player for the future.

Carmont was playing really well before injury and IMO didn't deserve to be dropped after injury, maybe after Cas he does but it's a tough call. Does he deserve another game to show he's back to top form?? Goulding has shown he can slot in at centre or wing on either side and do it well. My guess is George gets the nod for Friday and will be judged on that game.

Phelps v someone else, perhaps Goulding again - he hasn't looked fully fit, but has been slotted back in extra sharpish, only to get injured again. Excellent when fit.

Tough one this as Phelps and Roberts have both been excellent at full back and Goulding has been excellent wherever he's been asked to play.

Shortly, we may have McIllorum v Piggy to add to this list.

I think he'll play them both which will lead to another tough choice between Bailey, Hansen & Mossop (& given Mossop can do a stint at prop Prescott & O'Carrol).

We have a genuine chance of topping the league - win our home games and the winnable away games and the Minor Premiership will be ours - and to do so we will need to make sure we have no weak links. The pro-Antipodean bias bothers me, as I can foresee a combination of Bailey, Carmont and Piggy costing us games.
I may be worrying unduly but the details can catch you out.

I think it too early to tell if theres a real bias there, and I'm not convinced the players you mention are really weak links.
What is pleasing is how good the whole squad is. Theres not a position on the pitch that there isn't SL quality cover available especially in the pack.

[Dobby]

I actually agree with much of what the opening poster has been saying and think that it as been a problem in British RL for years. Overseas players are often well paid, big name signings who have been signed by a coach/chairman and as such have to be played to justify the signing. We have seen this at Wigan many times over the last few years with Vaeleki, Bailey etc. You could even put Phelps in this category who was tried in just about every position by Noble to try and justify his signing. That is despite him him playing poorly at hooker, centre, wing and then being tried at full back where he has done better. Did Goulding or Ainscough get the same chances? Not a chance. Goulding in particular has been in and out of the team, even when he has played well, the moment an overseas player has been fit or when a scapegoat needed. I thought that this had all stopped with Noble gone but what happened to him last week when he was dropped was very Nobleesque.

However I do think that Maguire is his own man and is definately a big improvement on Noble in this regard, as shown with the dropping of Feka. I think that Maguire not actually signing any of these players helps an awful lot in this as he has no vested interest in seeing them do well. If they fail it doesnt look bad on him because he just inherited them.

As far Ridddell, Bailey and Carmont I think they are all extremely vulnerable to being dropped (or at least they should be) and over the next few months it will be interesting to see what happens. My thoughts on these three are as follows.

I must admit I am still not convinced by Riddell. At the moment he has no competition at hooker, with McIlorum being injured, and as such Maguire has no choice but to play him. Leuluai and Deacon can do a job in spells but they are not starting hookers in my opinion. Despite this Riddell is much better this year but I still think that he needs to improve a lot. It will be very interesting when McIlorum is fully fit again to see what happens.

Bailey I have just never been a fan of and he should not be in the 17. He just offers nothing and is precisely the type of signing that has held back British RL for so long. Yes he is experienced and yes he is very good with the younger players but I would actually find all that a bit condesending if I was him. There are very few who wanted his contract renewed for his rugby ability which is what it should be about. There are far better players than him in the second row positions and he was often very poor last year when asked to play centre. With his injury he looks to be even slower and I think as the move of Tomkins to centre twice this season has shown Maguire obviously does not think that Bailey is capable of covering there again. Therefore he hasnt even got the versitility that some seem to think he has. His age is showing now and this should be his last season at the club in my opinion.

I cant say I have been impressed with Carmont this year and I dont really understand where the notion of Carmont playing well this season has come from. In his first couple of games he was fairly annonymous and against Warrington Bridge totally outplayed him and beat him time and again, it was only good covering defence that prevented tries. Last week he again was very poor for much the same reasons. Catalan is the only game I remember him playing well but then again Catalan were that poor and the Wigan team as a whole were that good that it isnt saying much. Indeed throughout his time at Wigan his defence has been fairly poor (there were spells last year where he was awful) but it rarely gets mentioned because he is a fans favourite for what he does in attack and because he was a cheap signing. The fact that he was so good, and so cheap, compared to what he replaced (Vaeleki) means he will always be highly regarded. He has been a good servant in his time but I would also suspect that this season will be his last.

Also some fans have alluded to Bailey and Carmont being part of the leadership team and as such cant get dropped. I am sorry but that is rubbish, if they are playing poorly they should be dropped as anyone else would. Otherwise 5 of the team would be gauranteed a place week in week out.

[Matthew]

I cant say I have been impressed with Carmont this year and I dont really understand where the notion of Carmont playing well this season has come from. In his first couple of games he was fairly annonymous and against Warrington Bridge totally outplayed him and beat him time and again, it was only good covering defence that prevented tries. Last week he again was very poor for much the same reasons. Catalan is the only game I remember him playing well but then again Catalan were that poor and the Wigan team as a whole were that good that it isnt saying much. Indeed throughout his time at Wigan his defence has been fairly poor (there were spells last year where he was awful) but it rarely gets mentioned because he is a fans favourite for what he does in attack and because he was a cheap signing. The fact that he was so good, and so cheap, compared to what he replaced (Vaeleki) means he will always be highly regarded. He has been a good servant in his time but I would also suspect that this season will be his last.

Carmont has been one of our best signings of the last ten years (not taking into account what he cost) - I would be interested to know who you think has been a better centre for Wigan since Renouf?

George does make mistakes in defence; but then all the team do. I agree that attack is his strongest point; both in his service to Pat and his support play (wasn't Ainscough playing outside him last season when he was scoring more than a try a game?); however to describe his defence as "fairly poor" is a bit unfair.

He hasn't had the fastest start to the season; however he has been carrying injuries (and I also agree that if he isn't fit then Goulding should play) and I would be surprised if he didn't start to up his game in the coming weeks.

George made the dream team in his first season and when there was talk of his contract not being renewed there were rumours that saints would take him; I'm pretty sure that most of the wingers in super league would be happy to have him as their centre - that is why he is a fan favorite

[cpwigan]

Watched an Aussie RL programme with Phil Gould and he was talking about young players saying they should be given a chance AND EXPECTED to make mistakes. Mistakes that they can learn from and eliminate. They should not be expected to dominate a competition in their first season.

The opposite and bigger question is why older players who make bad mistakes are forgiven or their faults ignored. However, had Goulding missed the tackles that Carmont missed he would have been hungm, drawn and quartered.

[jobo]

Don't know if it's bias but dropping Goulding to me looks like MM is employing safety first. Maybe he believes Carmont was the safer bet.

I'm no coach but in my eyes players like Goulding are the future and if he plays well, then he should retain his place.

Then again, I'd like to see at least 15 British players in every super league squad.

I'd allow maybe 2 top rated Aussie/kiwi internationals, outside the salary cap, to provide some media hullabaloo and
pass on their experience to our players.

Might be a bit old fashioned but I've seen plenty of young players who definitely had the potential to make it, become disillusioned and have walked away from the game.