Attack not functioning?

[KOOCH]

We are all experts in our own minds and know better than the coach. I consider myself to have a rudimentry idea of who should play in what position and why. I am however not the man coaching the team thank god. I am though willing to leave it to MM and SW. We are as quite rightly pointed out by several supportes not the same attacking side that won the GF. But as I have said before.MM does not at this moment have the players at his disposal as he did previously.Who would you bow to? we the critics or MM? I am quite happy to leave things in the hands of Michael who did us proud last year.Smith had a wealth of players at his disposal and ran us ragged. But lets wait until it is a level playing field before we find fault with MM and his tactics Remember this is not Brian Noble we are talking about. Maguire did say that we will learn from this defeat. And I for one believe him.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

You're spot on CP, the attack clearly isn't functioning as it was last season. The sweeping moves that we did just haven't been present which is obvious in the lack of tries that Goulding has been scoring when compared to last year. We're grinding out wins through some fairly decent defence but our attack has very little fluency.

Perhaps it's because we haven't really been able to have a settled side. Against Hull we missed Deacon when he went off which is always a big blow for us. O'Loughlin and Leuluai just don't combine well enough in the halves to pose much of a threat. Even with Deacon we've been struggling through.

Spot on Cherry.

Our forwards will come good and when we have our top pack on show I can't see many competing with us. The backs are a different kettle of fish - Richards will improve us if he regains his fitness and form; we have no natural replacement for Gleeson (Charnley and Marsh are too inexperienced and need to be given time in and out of the first team to hohne their skills); Goulding is struugling without Gleeson; Roberts is at present an expensive misfit (we paid big money for somebody who is not playing at the required level - IL made a mistake when investing in a winger because in modern rugby you don't need a flyer but a finisher); Sam is playing out of position but will revert back to 6 when Finch leaves; we are desperate for a number 7 who can organise the team (Tommy is not a 7). We are in desperate need of a strike centre in the mold of Gasnier or Lyon.Having said all that one bad game doesn't mean we are a bad team

One of the problems seems to be that sides have Sam Tomkins completely figured out. Last season he would slot into the attacking line to create an overlap and he was almost unstoppable. This year every team has had him covered except for Bradford. They know exactly what he's trying to do and it just isn't varied.

I also think we've lost a bit of threat down the right hand side with Joel's lack of form and demotion to the bench and then his ban. Hansen isn't an attacking threat in any way which means we can't attack effectively down the right with Hansen, Leuluai, Marsh and Goulding being a combination that wouldn't strike fear into even a Championship defence. We're only strong down the left right now and it's too easy for clubs to read that and keep us under wraps.

Hopefully it's something that will improve over time because right now we're attacking like we did under Noble. The long passing moves with dummy runners and smart passes just aren't there for whatever reason and it's important that Madge can find out what it is that isn't working, because something definitely isn't, even if it's just a slight lack of cohesion that will steadily improve.

[cpwigan]

I think we play the game as it is now played by top clubs here and the NRL whereby it is incredibly simple and basic in your own half with the emphasis on finding the floor, fast next POTB. The variety came from backs doing the hard yards and without Pat and Amos/Sam not at their best it is predictable. I do not think Sam has been in at dummy half enough this season compared to the end of last season when he was breaking from our 20.

In the opp 20. I think we are looking to go wide and get on the outside too much. The worst aspect of the plays v Wire was that the second man plays etc were done well in front of the defence allowing the defence to read and react. Timing and how close to defenders you run the plays is so vital IMO. Not having set playmakers is a huge factor in why these plays are nowhere near as good as they were. Injuries / new players are taking their time to bed in etc.

The speed and physicality with which Warrington attacked was superior to ourselves. They asked more questions but they also had the field position to trigger we put our scoring plays on.

I am concerned re when Gaz Hock returns. I think Hock has that X factor to pull rabbits out of a hat for a team but I am not sure Madge will want such high risk plays. I would personally always have Hock in my team.

Too much team personnel disruption and in key positions is hurting our attack but it is fixable.

[weststand-rich]

I think we play the game as it is now played by top clubs here and the NRL whereby it is incredibly simple and basic in your own half with the emphasis on finding the floor, fast next POTB. The variety came from backs doing the hard yards and without Pat and Amos/Sam not at their best it is predictable. I do not think Sam has been in at dummy half enough this season compared to the end of last season when he was breaking from our 20.

In the opp 20. I think we are looking to go wide and get on the outside too much. The worst aspect of the plays v Wire was that the second man plays etc were done well in front of the defence allowing the defence to read and react. Timing and how close to defenders you run the plays is so vital IMO. Not having set playmakers is a huge factor in why these plays are nowhere near as good as they were. Injuries / new players are taking their time to bed in etc.

The speed and physicality with which Warrington attacked was superior to ourselves. They asked more questions but they also had the field position to trigger we put our scoring plays on.

I am concerned re when Gaz Hock returns. I think Hock has that X factor to pull rabbits out of a hat for a team but I am not sure Madge will want such high risk plays. I would personally always have Hock in my team.

Too much team personnel disruption and in key positions is hurting our attack but it is fixable.

If you watch they way Wire organised their defence they umbrella-ed around the middle 4-6, compressing our play and slowing down the play the ball. This gave their outside backs time to number up in such a way that their defencive line was up, straight and not having to slide.

Credit to them it worked.

Amos to FB?

Tommy to hooker interchange?

Sam T and Finch in the halves?

Joel T or Charnley to the centres?

[Wes]

Nothing to worry about for me, this is the worst our team will be for quite some time with everbody missing as allready mentioned in previous posts and to be fair to warrington they played the best rugby on friday I think i have ever seen them play! with players coming back so will continuity and with that more tries however this bodes well for the long term because as we attack more we should be defending less and to be fair we are doing way more than our fair share at the moment so in a few games time we will start looking like we did last year!
I do agree about Gleeson though, it needs putting to bed and we need a centre for a couple of seasons Marsh has the potential and he will be good but I am not convinced he is quite ready just yet.

P.S Give Lima a chance some aussies need time bedding in, remember Richards playing for the reserves.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

I think we play the game as it is now played by top clubs here and the NRL whereby it is incredibly simple and basic in your own half with the emphasis on finding the floor, fast next POTB. The variety came from backs doing the hard yards and without Pat and Amos/Sam not at their best it is predictable. I do not think Sam has been in at dummy half enough this season compared to the end of last season when he was breaking from our 20.

In the opp 20. I think we are looking to go wide and get on the outside too much. The worst aspect of the plays v Wire was that the second man plays etc were done well in front of the defence allowing the defence to read and react. Timing and how close to defenders you run the plays is so vital IMO. Not having set playmakers is a huge factor in why these plays are nowhere near as good as they were. Injuries / new players are taking their time to bed in etc.

The speed and physicality with which Warrington attacked was superior to ourselves. They asked more questions but they also had the field position to trigger we put our scoring plays on.

I am concerned re when Gaz Hock returns. I think Hock has that X factor to pull rabbits out of a hat for a team but I am not sure Madge will want such high risk plays. I would personally always have Hock in my team.

Too much team personnel disruption and in key positions is hurting our attack but it is fixable.

If you watch they way Wire organised their defence they umbrella-ed around the middle 4-6, compressing our play and slowing down the play the ball. This gave their outside backs time to number up in such a way that their defencive line was up, straight and not having to slide.

Credit to them it worked.

Amos to FB?

Amos back to Aus.

Tommy to hooker interchange?

Fine

Sam T and Finch in the halves?

Fine

Joel T or Charnley to the centres?

No Joel's a backrow forward who happens to be a makeshift centre. Charnley needs more experience on the wing. We need to recruit a strike centre from Aus.

I note that Marsh is not discussed here!

[cpwigan]

I would like to see Goulding given a go at centre personally. I see nothing to inspire me re Marsh and whilst Charnley had a mare v Wire you can see the potential on a far more regular basis.

Tommy is a funny one. An enigma. He has the talent but like SEFC I do not see him as a scrum half.

[DaveO]

We are all experts in our own minds and know better than the coach. I consider myself to have a rudimentry idea of who should play in what position and why. I am however not the man coaching the team thank god. I am though willing to leave it to MM and SW. We are as quite rightly pointed out by several supportes not the same attacking side that won the GF. But as I have said before.MM does not at this moment have the players at his disposal as he did previously.Who would you bow to? we the critics or MM?

On the forum - the critics of course because that is what forums are for, for fans to mull over all aspects of the team and game. There wouldn't be any point posting if all we ever did was say "well that didn't go so well but I trust the coach".

I am quite happy to leave things in the hands of Michael who did us proud last year.Smith had a wealth of players at his disposal and ran us ragged. But lets wait until it is a level playing field before we find fault with MM and his tactics Remember this is not Brian Noble we are talking about. Maguire did say that we will learn from this defeat. And I for one believe him.

We don't have any option but to leave things in his hands and as you say Noble he is not. And yes there were some extenuating circumstances in the loss to Wire but I think we can all spot when some things are not working. Noble was tantamount to useless at coming up with something different when things were not working and I certainly have more faith in Madge than that but it is OK to suggest things like playing Sam at 1 isn't working or whatever on a forum.

[the winky one]

Thomo the problem with having forwards to sort out opposition teams theses days is that Wigan nearly always get pulled up and punished for it..as we have seen with Sam recently...Whenever Wigan lose my dad always says the team is rubbish and it riles me beyond belief . The team is not rubbish,we had a bad game, that doesn't make a rubbish team.Once the absent players are back and Finch is
up to speed we will see a difference. Also hopefully we will soon have Hock,but again he will need time to blend in.
Until then we should all try to hold our nerve.

[GeoffN]

Bear in mind too that we've played the other 3 top teams (Saints, Wire, Hudds) which brings the average down - we've still got lots of games against (so-called) lesser opposition.