Sam Tomkins

[jolleymike]

Bradford winger Gareth Raynor has been handed a two-match ban as a result of his sending-off in the Bulls' 26-22 Carnegie Challenge Cup defeat by Wigan Warriors on Sunday.

Raynor, who was dismissed half an hour into the fifth-round tie for a high tackle on full-back Sam Tomkins as he was about to score a try, was found guilty of a grade B offence when he appeared in front of the Rugby Football League's disciplinary committee this evening.


bloody disgrace he should have got a minimum of 4 for me, i just hope that the next time we play them both sam and joel return the favour.

[ancientnloyal]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-Mg3nwA68[/youtube]

still looks bad even a few days later of watching it. Just the impact of his head on the grass

[gpartin]

Some of the comments are disgusting, BUT let's be fair here for a second, Sam makes a rod for his own back with the holding down of players etc and if he played for another side we'd be calling him all the names under the sun. I'm not saying for one second he is dirty but there is a side to his game I don't like and I'm surprised Madge, and the refs, let's him get away with it in all honesty. When we were beaten by Leeds in the cup we were penalised for holding down and it was because Lockers IIRC couldn't get his arm out of the way. We all went mental yet Sam does it all the time.

Now, on the Raynor incident let's be fair for a second, he deserved a sending off and my gripe with the press was they were saying it was harsh. At the speed the incident took place however it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that Raynor was deliberately aiming for the head and not the ball, if he was aiming for the head then he is the most accurate puncher ever. I think if we all calm down a bit and be fair about things then realistically Reckless is the only charge which could be proveable and I think 2 matches is fair enough. Only Raynor knows what his intentions were and I'm prepared to give him benefit of the doubt. Any suggestion he shouldn't have gone is quite frankly a joke but I think some people on here are going a bit OTT, there have been far clearer. Deliberate acts of thuggery against Sam that have gone unpunished several times this year.

[Panchitta Marra]

First ever try by an unconcious player?

Should have been an 8 pointer.

Had Sam not placed the ball down with downward pressure, albeit unconciously, it would have been given as a penalty try.

[Wes]

GPartin I can understand some of what you say about Sam having a dirty streak and can agree I dont like it either he would be better to eradicate this from his game however their is a difference between holding players down, trapping arms and the 3 man tackle last player going low on the legs and knocking some one out!

Now you say only Raynor will know 100% if he intended to hit him or not but lets be clear his fist is clenched it is a punch not an attempt for the ball and as regards to your accuracy to the punch that is nonsense these guys are at the top of the sporting ladder they know what they are doing and throwing an accurate punch is easy its not like archery, IMO Raynor knew what he was doing (we need to avoid incidents which can cause serious injury) BUT we can not complain too much because as you put it and I agree Sam does make a rod for his own back at times.

Still the best full back in the league playing for the best team in the league.

[Wes]

by the way the youtube video in the thread if you are skillful enough to pause it on 18seconds have a look and let me know your views, where is raynor positioned, where is sam positioned, raynors arm etc . . . . . may make things a little clearer regarding any intentions 1 way or the other.

[butt monkey]

At the speed the incident took place however it is IMPOSSIBLE to say that Raynor was deliberately aiming for the head and not the ball, if he was aiming for the head then he is the most accurate puncher ever.

I agree what you are attempting to say, however, if you reverse the argument and say he was deliberately going for knocking the ball out of Sam's grasp, then he would also have to have been one of the best attempts and as such one of the most accurate punches to knock the ball away - ever, (and how often per season do you ever see such last ditch success in this manor?).

IMO Raynor was deliberately setting off to hurt Sam in whichever way he could with that arm stiffened and fist clenched. If the ball came free then he would have so called "succeeded" in performing a defensive role, seeing as he didn't, he just took out Wigan's main attacking threat. With a 50/50 chance of being sent off it was a good gamble on behalf of Bradford's remaining success for the season

To follow on from 29Wes28 point. Every team has a player the fans love to "hate". Tompkins is #1 hate figure for most of our opponents, but it doesn't mean he is a dirty/foul player in the same way that the likes of Morley has been.

It is simply the fact his on field "cockiness" is disliked and is taken as arrogance and Sam will just have to get used to it (if he hasn't done already). When he starts punching players on the sly, making deliberate high tackles, fingering rectums, gouging, biting etc THEN you can accuse him of being a dirty player :sly:

[gpartin]

Erm did you miss this bit?: “I'm not saying for one second he is dirty”

Look, Sam doesn't 'deserve' the stick he gets but the combination of him being small, the most dangerous player and irritating makes him an easy target. All I'm saying is he's contributed to it and when there's a player who moans to refs, traps people's legs etc I'm sure it annoys refs too meaning they are less inclined to act in those situations when he is targeted. Most people on here would love Lee Briers to get flattened every now and then (and no I don't mean sparked out unconcious).

The point about players being at the top of their game somehow meaning they know how to throw an accurate punch while running into a player who's diving with the ball is nonsense imo. Watching the 'brawl' at the end of the Origin game today with even better players shows that in actual fact the vast majority of players can't throw a punch for toffee and that's when they're stood still. The clenched fist thing may indicate he wanted to hurt him but that doesn't mean he wanted to hit him in the jaw and spark him out. He obviously wanted to stop the try being scored and he obviously knows that if he does it by punching a player in the jaw the try is going to be scored anyway. It was a reckless tackle and the result of it could have been far worse but the disciplinary committee need to take into account any malice there may, or may not, have been. Some of you are making it sound like Raynor had a couple of minutes preparation time before doing what he did, that it was all worked out and designed to knock Sam out.

[Wes]

Players know how to throw a punch its not hard did you see greg birds uppercuts lol do you know Sonny Bill Williams is a professional boxer in his spare time, Mason-Fielden, Peacock-Mason, all the rugby charity boxing matches etc etc etc jail bird Raynor knew what he was doing if you pause the vid on 18 secs its clear to see too I am not going to reply here any more because of 2 reasons I think its slightly naive to think he had no intent and secondly we will disagree and become repetative.

To finish Im going to ask a rhetorical question, if these guys are at the top of their game (Rugby League) and know what they are doing does anybody, Raynor included think he was in a good enough position to stop that try or dislodge the ball?

[gpartin]

So by naming a couple of fighters that makes your average rugby player know how to throw a punch then, that's effectively what you're saying? And of course semi pro boxers practice by running from yards away and throwing a punch at a moving target and get it absolutely spot on. At the end of the origin match today half of the players were throwing punches left right and centre and hardly any of them connected let alone connected well. I was trained years ago and watched live Thai boxing matches for years to know that just because someone is big and fit does not make them either able to throw a punch or take one. Also if people would read what I said I never disputed that he may have been trying to hurt him but I can't believe he was aiming for Sam's jaw, if he was he's a genius in the wrong sport. There's more ways to dislodge a ball than hitting it directly and I think its cynical to think that Raynor's first thought was anything other than stopping Sam scoring. The way he went about it was reckless and he deserved sending off and a two match ban because of it. If the boot was on the other foot I can almost guarantee there'd be more people agreeing with me than there are now. Next time anyone plays rugby try running at full speed at someone who is diving and knocking the ball out with your finger tips and see what happens.