Joel to Union

[cpwigan]

cp, I think you should think before you start putting on what you supposedly think players are earning. It is not our business.

Why ever not Plenty of people have been posting this and that claiming players are getting this and that yet you said nothing. When somebody posts correct figures and facts such as Joel Tomkins taking a pay cut to stay at Wigan previously it seems that even decent fans like yourself want to object whilst saying nothing as others reign in criticising players.

I actually think it is very important that fans have an understanding of how much (or little) players are paid given the misconceptions fans frequently have on such issues and how it can cloud their opinions.

It makes a huge difference to many fans IMO if 1) They remember Joel took a 20K pay cut to stay at Wigan when IL arrived and 2) that he currently only receives a salary of 55K.

Nobody should ever be afraid of the truth

[josie andrews]

I'm not arguing with you cp, it's just that sometimes you do say too much to stress your point.

And I wasn't just referring to you, but your post was the last one I read about players "salaries"!!

How can you be so confident that you know exactly what Joel is earning??

Has he or other players personally told you their earnings?

Unless you have a mole from inside the club giving you this information, how do we know that what you are saying regarding Joel's salary is correct? Or just your own summarisation of the subject!

[neilbass]

Maybe its the accountant in me but I'm interested in these figures to be honest -

from whats been rumoured recently (Joel on £80k from Wigan) - to Saracens offering anything from £250k to £400k.

cp's numbers are very different.

Appreciate Josie's point that its not our business, but at the same time I can sort of stand by Joel going over to Union for a massive salary increase.

So is it all just being over-egged numbers-wise in the reports?

Cp - prepared to say how you know? the way you state the numbers it's as though you have a list of players salaries (and how do you know the terms of the Saracens offer??)

[butt monkey]

he currently only receives a salary of 55K.

And no one should be afraid of reality either.

That is around £1000 per week (before deductions and wins bonuses - if there are any).

I'm sorry CP, but you (and a few others) make out that sport somehow "owes" players the opportunity to live the life of Riley once they finish playing ie retire at 32-35. I'm sorry - that is not the way. Like Paul Prescott has done, he has already taken steps to make sure once his playing career is over, not only will he be set for life (as long as he doesn't go down the drink/drugs/gambling/prostitutes route so many do with extra money in their hands), but also he will have the education to continue earning after that career has ended.

In an earlier post, you mention that Jason Robinson has a clothing business. Is this is the same player that took great advantage of the super league/NRL war and also Union going professional to make a great deal of money AND also finishing his sporting career in Union? This DID NOT mean the player was/is able to spend time living life like a lottery winner having to just live of accumulated wealth/interest payments. So why now do you try and take the stance that this should be afforded to today's current crop of Wigan players? - especially as in another thread, you actually question British professionalism/mentality at the club!

As for posters saying they can understand him wanting to go to Union for the huge pay increase on offer - of course you can!

BUT, remember he signed a deal that IS binding him to Wigan until the club that values his ability/professionalism/skills so highly enough to virtually treble his wages, at the same time stop expecting to treat his current employers (ie Wigan) as if they are some sort of back-street trader who were lucky to have him, with comparably derogatory offers in compensation.

If the Union club involved rate Joel so highly to treble his wages - surely they are willing to pay his current employer whatever it takes to obtain his release wouldn't you think? This would have all been over as quickly as the rumour started, rather than what now appears to be a penny pinching Union club expecting to entice players away with NO repercussions.

[Panchitta Marra]

No that is a view personal to you PM and not universal even in normal working life and certainly not so in the sporting world.

This is by far a personal view to me, but maybe in your eyes it is.

True, I maybe cannot argue against the sporting world as I was no better than an average athlete and amateur Rugby League player.

I have however worked allongside thousands of like for like colleagues who value their contract as it is their licence to continuity of a reasonable living.
Whatever money you are on if you ditch on the deal you dont go back and are often overlooked for other positions elsewhere. Its as simple as that.
I guess in the teaching profession it may be a bit different.

Right let's get it clear PM,

Whomever, anybody, everybody

If you have a job, your employees extract the maximum from you for as little as they can get away. Many would say and so they should.

If you hit hard times and go to your boss and say boss struggling financially at the moment, can I have some overtime to earn some more money. If I do not get money ASAP I will lose my house, my children will be homeless. No employer gives you the time of day when you ask them for help, two fingers to you life is tough. However, your employers receive a big order and need workers to do overtime then they jolly well expect it when it suits them and guess what, there will be money grabbing fellow workers who will stab you in the back to protect their right to overtime, men/women obsessed with their bank balance who will screw you rather than give a young worker with kids an even break.

So employers shaft workers and workers shaft workers. Anybody want to argue different. Guess what you are talking bollocks. I am not talking just from personal experience here (far from it) but also from generations of workers; miners, mill workers, production workers. It has never been any different and it never will. Why, human nature is to be a bastard to your fellow human beings. So any of you want to pretend otherwise. I again say bollocks. Even when people give money for charity they frequently do so disingenously.

I do not care if you work to a contract and see your contract outs. Whopee doo. I have worked to permanent and to temporary contracts. I have worked at a very high level with the most selfish, evil, bone idle high earners who would screw you without the blink of an eye.

That is the real world, dog eat dog. It is unpleasant, mean and nasty. Human beings are predisposed IMO to being mean and nasty before being kind and charitable.

Romantic bullshit about sport. I will tell you why I played sport. Yes, I enjoyed it but the enjoyment came from knowing that on a sports field it was man v man no hiding/abusing a system to shaft people behind closed doors. You could look in the eyes of another man and impose yourself on him, man to man in a truly fair contest. Hardly anywhere in life do we ever see a fair contest, a truly fair life. Sport can and should be the one place you can because you will never get it in every day life, certainly not in the work place.

So anybody wants to take a holier than thou stance I say bullshit, because that is what it is bullshit.

I get a sniff of a personal attitude attack against me in this thread CP.
Am I correct on that ?

[butt monkey]

I get a sniff of a personal attitude attack against me in this thread CP.
Am I correct on that ?

Not sure on that PM. I do recollect CP having exactly the same sort of "breakdown" a close season or so, where he threatened to leave the site if people didn't stop disagreeing with him

I would guess he is using his own personal circumstances/agenda to push his arguments about Joel etc. We know he is a teacher and the fact that they (as well as all the other public sector workers) are going to have to work longer before they can retire/less final salary schemes/generous retirement pay-outs etc and also have the added stress of threatened industrial action over the coming months. IMO I think CP finds it hard to separate his own to Joel's circumstances (and NO it is not a dig at you CP)

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

I get a sniff of a personal attitude attack against me in this thread CP.
Am I correct on that ?

Not sure on that PM. I do recollect CP having exactly the same sort of "breakdown" a close season or so, where he threatened to leave the site if people didn't stop disagreeing with him

I would guess he is using his own personal circumstances/agenda to push his arguments about Joel etc. We know he is a teacher and the fact that they (as well as all the other public sector workers) are going to have to work longer before they can retire/less final salary schemes/generous retirement pay-outs etc and also have the added stress of threatened industrial action over the coming months. IMO I think CP finds it hard to separate his own to Joel's circumstances (and NO it is not a dig at you CP)

What's all that rubbish about?

[Brianed0]

Compo is not much good to us. What can we do with it? The salary cap desperately needs to be rethought. Otherwise RU will take all our best young players. We just cannot compete with salaries. Who can blame the Thomkins going when they can triple their income. After all it is a very short career, they have to make their money when they can.

[slimshady]

I get a sniff of a personal attitude attack against me in this thread CP.
Am I correct on that ?

Not sure on that PM. I do recollect CP having exactly the same sort of "breakdown" a close season or so, where he threatened to leave the site if people didn't stop disagreeing with him

I would guess he is using his own personal circumstances/agenda to push his arguments about Joel etc. We know he is a teacher and the fact that they (as well as all the other public sector workers) are going to have to work longer before they can retire/less final salary schemes/generous retirement pay-outs etc and also have the added stress of threatened industrial action over the coming months. IMO I think CP finds it hard to separate his own to Joel's circumstances (and NO it is not a dig at you CP)

Why's that has CP been tapped up by the RFU too?

[butt monkey]

I get a sniff of a personal attitude attack against me in this thread CP.
Am I correct on that ?

Not sure on that PM. I do recollect CP having exactly the same sort of "breakdown" a close season or so, where he threatened to leave the site if people didn't stop disagreeing with him

I would guess he is using his own personal circumstances/agenda to push his arguments about Joel etc. We know he is a teacher and the fact that they (as well as all the other public sector workers) are going to have to work longer before they can retire/less final salary schemes/generous retirement pay-outs etc and also have the added stress of threatened industrial action over the coming months. IMO I think CP finds it hard to separate his own to Joel's circumstances (and NO it is not a dig at you CP)

What's all that rubbish about?

Sometimes I really worry about the standards of education/levels of competence of those who are allowed to use computers. You prove to be a perfect example as you comment on something you are not willing to try and read or even understand. Just read anything YOU post and you get the idea