Cummins Under Fire At Last

[Shaun1967]

"A lot of the coaches do not have confidence in Stuart and want him out of the job"

"Every game is refereed differently"

Full story:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby/view/2 ... -referees/

[jobo]

Bearing in mind this is the Daily Star and a large pinch of salt is needed before you believe anything in it, Tony Smith is rapidly turning into a first class whinger.

You'd need robots to ensure every decision was the same across all games. The refs, bless em, are going to upset someone every week, usually from the losing side. Although the rules are pretty clear, they've to give a subjective opinion and the fact is they aren't going to get it right all the time.

He'll be complaining to God next about the weather.

[Mike]

You can't be robots, but you can put significant effort into consistency. It just isn't happening at the moment. There is a culture of defending each specific descision - but there should be a culture of defending the consistency of decisions and admitting that refs occassiaionally get it wrong. There is no shame in that and Cummings needs to realise that in order to improve the refs he needs to lay out clear and consistent standards for decisions and compare everything against those. Its not hard.

[Shaun1967]

Bearing in mind this is the Daily Star and a large pinch of salt is needed before you believe anything in it, Tony Smith is rapidly turning into a first class whinger.

You'd need robots to ensure every decision was the same across all games. The refs, bless em, are going to upset someone every week, usually from the losing side. Although the rules are pretty clear, they've to give a subjective opinion and the fact is they aren't going to get it right all the time.

He'll be complaining to God next about the weather.

If you read the article again you will see that the majority of it is attributed to 'Another boss who didn't want to be named'. This isn't about Tony Smith and his whinging ways.
Stuart Cummins is the man who insisted amateur referees from Wigan, Hull, Cumbria, etc. have to travel to Leeds each week, after work, to train together, causing many of them to pack in the game. The man is not good for rugby league.
For the head of referees to allow communications with coaches to stop is inviting problems.
One of the major problems in the game (and this isn't Cummin's fault) is that many of the rules aren't 'pretty clear' as you state. They are open to interpretation ; ball stripping, obstruction, to name just a couple. What the head of referees can do is communicate how these rules will be interpreted to coaches, and ensure referees are consistent in the way that they apply them.
Quite simply, the standard of refereeing has gone backwards since they went full time.

[jobo]

Bearing in mind this is the Daily Star and a large pinch of salt is needed before you believe anything in it, Tony Smith is rapidly turning into a first class whinger.

You'd need robots to ensure every decision was the same across all games. The refs, bless em, are going to upset someone every week, usually from the losing side. Although the rules are pretty clear, they've to give a subjective opinion and the fact is they aren't going to get it right all the time.

He'll be complaining to God next about the weather.

If you read the article again you will see that the majority of it is attributed to 'Another boss who didn't want to be named'. This isn't about Tony Smith and his whinging ways.
Stuart Cummins is the man who insisted amateur referees from Wigan, Hull, Cumbria, etc. have to travel to Leeds each week, after work, to train together, causing many of them to pack in the game. The man is not good for rugby league.
For the head of referees to allow communications with coaches to stop is inviting problems.
One of the major problems in the game (and this isn't Cummin's fault) is that many of the rules aren't 'pretty clear' as you state. They are open to interpretation ; ball stripping, obstruction, to name just a couple. What the head of referees can do is communicate how these rules will be interpreted to coaches, and ensure referees are consistent in the way that they apply them.
Quite simply, the standard of refereeing has gone backwards since they went full time.

The rules are clear, specific and despite what you say, not open to interpretation. The problem is and always will be that the ref can only give what he sees, maybe at times what he chooses to see, hence it's subjective not objective. As for Cummins, he's always been a prickly character and I never liked him as a ref, so it doesn't surprise me that he causes problems when there's no need for it. I reckon Smith is raising this point though from a purely selfish perspective in an attempt to influence, however slightly games Warrington are involved in. As for the un-named boss, if he doesn't want to be named then he should keep his trap shut.

[BriH]

My experience of Scummins goes back a long time and I am not surprised he his non-communicative.
I gave up writing to him, and used to Cc to Nigel Woods and before that, the Chairman in order to get a reply.
I now see why the players think they need a new Union. Perhaps they will be able to exert some pressure on the RFL to listen to genuine concerns.
Whilst I agree Rules is Rules, it's the inconsistency of interpretation that annoys Fans, Players and Coaches alike.
I think also that the RFL is becoming all powerful under Nigel Woods to the detriment of the game in general and for the spectators in particular.
So there!

[DaveO]

My experience of Scummins goes back a long time and I am not surprised he his non-communicative.
I gave up writing to him, and used to Cc to Nigel Woods and before that, the Chairman in order to get a reply.
I now see why the players think they need a new Union. Perhaps they will be able to exert some pressure on the RFL to listen to genuine concerns.

Cummins as Mike said is very defensive and always comes up with any excuse for his refs whenever they are questioned. Loyalty to tour employees is one thing but if you let that get in the way of doing the job you are supposed to be doing there is not point doing the job.

I think also that the RFL is becoming all powerful under Nigel Woods to the detriment of the game in general and for the spectators in particular.
So there!

Don't get me started on this muppet. He is the worst thing to happen to RL in the last 20 years. His latest batty idea of SL sides playing against NRL sides shows he just does not get it. It is totally impractical and also shows how fixated on the club game he is. If he put half the effort into promoting the International game as he does in dreaming up stupid play off formats with things like "club call", the magic weekend and now this daft idea about SL v NRL club games we might have an International game that was in a far better state.

If there is something simple an obvious that needs to be done to promote the best interests of the game you can guarantee Woods will be busy on another daft idea instead.

God knows what has happened to Richard Lewis because we never hear his name these days.

It would be a good thing for RL if both Woods and Cummins left. They have been in their jobs far too long and the RFL needs reinvigoration with some people who know how to run a sport.

[BriH]

My experience of Scummins goes back a long time and I am not surprised he his non-communicative.
I gave up writing to him, and used to Cc to Nigel Woods and before that, the Chairman in order to get a reply.
I now see why the players think they need a new Union. Perhaps they will be able to exert some pressure on the RFL to listen to genuine concerns.

Cummins as Mike said is very defensive and always comes up with any excuse for his refs whenever they are questioned. Loyalty to tour employees is one thing but if you let that get in the way of doing the job you are supposed to be doing there is not point doing the job.

I think also that the RFL is becoming all powerful under Nigel Woods to the detriment of the game in general and for the spectators in particular.
So there!

Don't get me started on this muppet. He is the worst thing to happen to RL in the last 20 years. His latest batty idea of SL sides playing against NRL sides shows he just does not get it. It is totally impractical and also shows how fixated on the club game he is. If he put half the effort into promoting the International game as he does in dreaming up stupid play off formats with things like "club call", the magic weekend and now this daft idea about SL v NRL club games we might have an International game that was in a far better state.

If there is something simple an obvious that needs to be done to promote the best interests of the game you can guarantee Woods will be busy on another daft idea instead.

God knows what has happened to Richard Lewis because we never hear his name these days.

It would be a good thing for RL if both Woods and Cummins left. They have been in their jobs far too long and the RFL needs reinvigoration with some people who know how to run a sport.

Well said DaveO - my thoughts exactly.
Richard Lewis is part time now - if he wasn't always!
Nigel Woods is lost in the Ivory Tower called Red Hall.