Wigan Observer A new 6

[Kittwazzer]

From Finch and Tommy to Matty Smith and and Rangi Chase. :eusa16:

Are our coaching staff really going to be able to turn Smith and Chase into players as good as Finch and Tommy?

If it's that simple why bother bringing Finch over in the first place? Matty Smith was out of contract around the same time and we showed no interest then.

We can just buy any player and Wane will wave his magic wand and hey-presto we will end up with a world class player. Clearly a players natural ability (or lack of it) is of no significance. :eusa18:

Who waved a magic wand over Sam to allow him to replace Tim Smith?

What are you on about? Sam is the most naturally gifted player to grace the jersey since Hanley.

If you are suggesting he got as good as he is because of Wane's coaching you don't have much idea of what makes some players merely good and the odd rare one like Sam truly great.

However even if Sam's abilities were all down to Wane our rumoured new half backs won't have grown up with his coaching either.

As ever Dave, you read what you want to read. You mentioned a 'magic wand'. I just played your childish game. Read again but first look up sarcasm in you Collins Pocket Dictionary!

[DaveO]

Wane is doing something I never thought possible and if he pulls it off then it is a watershed moment for British RL; namely, a British born RL coach has taken the best the NRL has to offer, learned from it and then advanced it. I never rated British coaches and never thought I would but if Wane continues he will have made me eat my words / views.

On what he has done so far I trust Wane.

He has done very well so far but my concern is you can only replace true class with average players so often before even the best coach will not be able to beat a team full of stars that is less well coached. Lets not forget when Madge turned Noble's team (+1) round overnight he did have a lot of talented players in that side. Wane has got the side going even better but his job is certainly not made harder due to having Finch, Lima, Tommy and Carmont all on top form.

Chase / Smith could be fantastic Wigan halfbacks. Fans may forget but many, the majority had grave doubt about Tommy as a HB. Most thought he was a better hooker than a HB. Short memories Even Finchy had his detractors I can remember many here IIRC you too Dave O saying losing Hoffman was a backward step and Hock could not offer what Hoffman did. The evidence is that he has been replaced, improved upon even for the TEAM balance. Likewise, Goulding, plenty fans thought he was poor, not fit to replace Gleeson / JTomkins yet he has made fans eat their words.

I think your memory is playing tricks on you. I have never said "Hock could not offer what Hoffman did". I have said Hoffman is the more disciplined player, which he is. I have also said words to the effect of we didn't miss Hock when he was out. Which we didn't given the trophies we won. Had circumstances meant that Hock had not come back and had we kept Hoffman we would still have the best back row forwards in the league. I can see the talent in Hock as well as anyone but as people like to remind me it's about the team and coach not individual players so if he had left it would not have been the end of the world.

Maybe we fans need to show a little more faith and trust

Well fans have their opinions on players and always will hence this is no doubt why when I just posted on the poll thread for Chase 56% were against him coming here.

[DaveO]

Who waved a magic wand over Sam to allow him to replace Tim Smith?

What are you on about? Sam is the most naturally gifted player to grace the jersey since Hanley.

If you are suggesting he got as good as he is because of Wane's coaching you don't have much idea of what makes some players merely good and the odd rare one like Sam truly great.

However even if Sam's abilities were all down to Wane our rumoured new half backs won't have grown up with his coaching either.

As ever Dave, you read what you want to read. You mentioned a 'magic wand'. I just played your childish game. Read again but first look up sarcasm in you Collins Pocket Dictionary!

Well given the sarcasm of my original post clearly went right over your head, after you!

[Wes]

I was going to delve into the stats in great detail and explain them I was then going to name 10 half backs and their clubs and ask people to rate them 1-10 as players and then do the same for the clubs but after tonight I thought what's the point.

Sam gets the ball on a 2nd phase attack for Wigan on every other set at the very least tonight I could count the times he got the ball on 2nd phase options on 1 hand. This is down to half backs and pass selection, Sam had a good defensive game and had to rely on individual efforts in broken play to have an impact and considering he is ARGUABLY the best FB in the world that's poor.

Lastly after tonights performance I can't wait to see Chase in cherry and white ... Awesome .....

I'm not going to repeat myself again or defend my opinion on this matter I have done that now on enough occasions for people to realise I don't rate Rangi nor do I want him at Wigan but I will finish by repeating myself on this matter that if we do sign him I'll support him and the decision the club made to sign him.

[i'm spartacus]

I was going to delve into the stats in great detail and explain them I was then going to name 10 half backs and their clubs and ask people to rate them 1-10 as players and then do the same for the clubs but after tonight I thought what's the point.

Sam gets the ball on a 2nd phase attack for Wigan on every other set at the very least tonight I could count the times he got the ball on 2nd phase options on 1 hand. This is down to half backs and pass selection, Sam had a good defensive game and had to rely on individual efforts in broken play to have an impact and considering he is ARGUABLY the best FB in the world that's poor.

Lastly after tonights performance I can't wait to see Chase in cherry and white ... Awesome .....

Sorry, but this is total and utter biased crap. Two tries came directly as a result of Chase kicks, and you quite obviously missed the fact that Sinfield at stand off was why the ball never came out. In fact Sinfield died with the ball on every occasion, and it seems from your post that you believe this was somehow Chase's fault?


You don't like the guy is fair enough. That can be reason enough that you don't want him, but don't make things up to suit your argument

[exile in Tiger country]

Me not turning up would have no affect. 14,000 plus not turning up would have slightly more influence, however, that is never going to happen. The point I was trying to make was that without the fans, a professional sports club is nothing.

You really do have a fanciful idea of owners worrying about what fans want as far as players signed/sold etc and how clubs should be run. As I said, when you manage to buy Wigan Warriors you will be able to run it exactly as you would like to - with signings etc etc. I would imagine you will find plenty of pitfalls to your simplistic idea of approaching and signing players and then getting them to sign on the dotted line

You mentioned the salary cap in the same context as transfer fee's. The Transfer fee has nothing to do with a player, that is between the two clubs involved. The Salary cap only enters negotiation when discussing personal terms with the player.
We could offer fifty Million $Australian for Cooper Cronk, and no doubt Melbourne would accept he offer. So far, salary cap has precisely ZERO influence.
This is the point where Salary cap becomes relevant, discussing terms with the player, so your contention that the amount a club is prepared to pay in tranfer fees is totally erroneous.

You obviously need this spelling out as you cannot understand simple layman's terms. Transfer fees and Salary Cap were not mentioned in the "same context" as you put it by me, if you fail to understand posts that is your problem

If Wigan offered $50 million for Cronk, do you not think he would want a big pay deal also? Now with the Australians having a) more to spend as they have a bigger salary cap than we (the British game) have and b) The exchange rate being so poor now (which means where once upon a time an English Pound was worth about $2.30 Australian Dollars, now it is around $1) If you use your sense for one moment, you will understand that to offer a wage of say £100k would in fact mean only around $100k Aussie Dollars to any potential overseas recruit. In the past the exchange rate would have made such deals far more enticing - :sarc:

I may often feel that comments made on here are wrong, however, I never call people stupid, as to do so is to lower the tone of the discussion and make it pointless.
Name calling should remain in the primary school playground.
Adults should discuss things. Especially adults that have no knowledge of the person with whom they are having the discussion other than via an internet discussion forum.

If you read my comment it was referring to your posts as being stupid as you were being condescending to Bertina. I didn't simply indicate you are stupid, however if you continue with your stance I must assume you are what you appear to be afraid of most in my original post to you. You lowered the tone of this thread by attempting to be "clever" and refute that Chase was available

I will finish by asking you this simple question. Was Stuart Fielden "available" when Wigan signed him? Of course he was not, but a large enough amount of money was offered to let the player discuss terms and see the move happen.

I suspect you are deliberately misreading my comments as at last, you have got to the point I was making i.e. ANY player can be made available by buying out their contract from the club by offering a transfer fee.
Very decent of you to leap to the defence of Bertina, however as she has hasn't made any comment, you are assuming a) I was being condescending, and b) Bertina was in any way offended.
I suspect we are not going to agree on this, so I will no longer respond to your comments on this subject. You may, if you wish, feel this is some kind of victory on your part.


And yes, that last sentence was intentionally condescending.

[Kittwazzer]

Must say, I am always impressed by the civilised way people on here conduct themselves in disagreement. Far nicer than on RedVee where the first person to disagree with you would simply call you a pi11ock!

[WESTCUMBRIARIVERSIDER]

josie, heard cas turned an offer of 3oo - 355k down from wire so someone reckons 500k

[Kittwazzer]

josie, heard cas turned an offer of 3oo - 355k down from wire so someone reckons 500k

I find that hard to believe. Briers shows no sign of slowing down!

[Shaun1967]

josie, heard cas turned an offer of 3oo - 355k down from wire so someone reckons 500k

If I was Cas chairman, Chase's price tag would have shot up the second Tommy got on that stretcher in anticipation of an early move from Wigan.