Latest Wigan Observer / Phil Wilkinson

[ddtftf]

Clark came back knackered, Dennis Betts came back Knackered
& Richard Mather's was bad when he went & worse when he came back. Looks like Hulls latest signing Gareth Ellis is also knackered. Australian teams only let players return when they have had the best out of them.

[Kittwazzer]

Clark came back knackered, Dennis Betts came back Knackered
& Richard Mather's was bad when he went & worse when he came back. Looks like Hulls latest signing Gareth Ellis is also knackered. Australian teams only let players return when they have had the best out of them.

I was going to mention Betts but you make a much stronger case. Ashurst left his best years over there, what did Hanley do when he got back? As for Edwards, I can't remember him playing down under!

[ddtftf]

Edwards was put into the reserves at St George and never made the first team

[Shaun1967]

Edwards was put into the reserves at St George and never made the first team

Edwards played for Balmain Tigers. In the first team.

[Kittwazzer]

Edwards was put into the reserves at St George and never made the first team

Hardly backs up CPs argument to bring back transportation to the colonies does it!

[Shaun1967]

Edwards was put into the reserves at St George and never made the first team

Hardly backs up CPs argument to bring back transportation to the colonies does it!

The only truth in that statement is that Edwards never played in the St George first team. This was partly due to the fact that he never signed for them.

[cpwigan]

Shaun Edwards played for Balmain and his stint is seen as unsuccessful by many BUT not Edwards. Edwards was 'carrying an injury' or recovering from one but he still managed to appear in a GF as a reserve. He apparently learned a great deal from Warren Ryan but also from the far less talented ginger haired Mick Neil who Edwards says taught him so much about what being a professional actually meant.

Even so called failures learned from the NRL. Andy Goodway was seen as a flop at Manly but he came back a better player. Brian Noble and Mike Gregory both struggled to get first grade game time but both learned plenty. Mike Ford went and hardly played first grade but came back far better for it.

Lose current players / past players as coaches to union or let them go to the NRL and maybe return? Why not take the bull by the horns and build stints into contracts. Be pro active. Watch George Burgess how he has developed far more in 12 months of an NRL environment.

[DaveO]

Just like ourselves the players remain free to leave the NRL as/when they choose despite so called contracts. There is a risk that some players may want to remain in Aus but how many would do so?

How do we know? It may well be they do as many Aussies did which is play the bulk of their career there and come here in their 30's when no longer up to the rigours of the NRL to extend their playing careers by a couple of years. This is just as likely a scenario as them going for a couple of years and coming back better players. In fact in my opinion it is more likely.

I just can't see why a player like Mossop would go and potentially double his wages and then voluntarily return after a couple of years for half pay (when he could still command a higher wage down under).

In the 50's we lost Punchy Griffiths, In the 60's I think we lost Dave Bolton In the 70's most players who went to Aus returned to England. Bill Ashurst for example. We also gained a great deal from some who returned such as Mal Reilly. The only one that seem to stay and sadly now splits his time is Stevo.

Ellery, Goodway, Lydon, Edwards, Gregory, Hampson, Gill, Skerrett all went to Aus in the 80s and returned. Likewise Mike Gregory, Schofield, Crooks, Goulding etc all went and returned. I cannot think of one player who went and did not return a better player.

There is no comparison here with the current situation at all.

In those days players went to play in Oz for the UK off-season (and we got many top class Aussies doing the same here). There was no financial incentive to remain in Oz back then and of course they returned to their UK clubs because they never left them!

They went on short term deals over the UK summer but remained contracted to their UK clubs. Ellery, Goodway, Lydon, Edwards, Gregory, Hampson, Gill, Skerrett all remained Wigan players and went for summer stints. They didn't sign for Oz clubs full time having left Wigan.

Some players that did eventually leave were the likes of Betts and when he came back he was nearing the end of his career and he wasn't as effective a player as before he left.

I think that rather backs up my point. Edwards may have learned a lot at Balmain but we never lost his services as a player. Betts may have learned a lot as well but we did lose him as a player and when he came back he wasn't some kind of stand out addition to the side.

There is a positive flip side too. Our player pool nationally expands. Players in another better competition and ever more British young players in our competition = a better national team = players who can return and become elite coaches / assistants / CEOs. Far far better than the drain to Union.

Even if that came to pass there has to be a sport worth returning to. There is no guarantee its going to work out like that anyway and as to a better national team I am not convinced a national team comprising several (or even completely of) overseas based players will gain any great support from fans. A small number is OK but IMO people want to see the national side made up of players they recognise from playing in the UK. Not a bunch of strangers.

[cpwigan]

Dave everything is conjecture.

I fully understand the difference in the situations cross the time periods. It begs the question would we be better returning to winter to create the option again AND tours.

Players did have opportunities to stay in Australia. Even back then contracts were meaningless. The evidence in both directions is that the majority, an overwhelming majority return to their home country often fairly quickly.

'Genuine' British players who do not play here would actually create far more interest and support than you give that scenario credit. The Australians by and large came here and crowds flocked in huge numbers to watch players they had not heard of or seen and once they had, they wanted even more.

Why not build stints to a partner club in the NRL at an early stage of a players career? Take the Burgess twins; Tom remained here and played SL first team for the Bulls whereas George went to the Rabbitohs spent a season in the Toyota Cup/NSW Reserve Grade and is now much more advanced than Tom and doing fantastic in first grade.

If our sport ever grasps the importance of international sport then British RL will grow and develop. The biggest disaster in British RL history was the international transfer ban brought about by people crying because some then big name were leaving to play in Australia.

[DaveO]

Dave everything is conjecture.

I fully understand the difference in the situations cross the time periods. It begs the question would we be better returning to winter to create the option again AND tours.

I think we would. One of the big losses with the move to winter was the tours. It severely diluted the International side of the game. Having a touring side come at play at Wigan was a fantastic game to attend the a tour meant an ashes series really meant something more.

Whether or not a return to winter would allow short term stints for players overseas is debatable. Even back then they were fairly controversial as the players didn't have a break. It would be interesting to see if the players wanted a break these days if taking it meant losing out on some cash!

Players did have opportunities to stay in Australia. Even back then contracts were meaningless. The evidence in both directions is that the majority, an overwhelming majority return to their home country often fairly quickly.

None of the Wigan players you mentioned actually left Wigan. They all went on short term stints over the summer.

There was also no financial incentive to leave and the gap between the competitions was not perceived to be as it is today. There was little of this "test yourself in the best league in the world" talk and we were just as likely to see the Keeny's and Sterlings here as the Aussies were to see out top stars over there. For short stints.

Later, Betts and Clarke did actually leave the club. Berts came back but when he nearing the end of his career. We didn't benefit from his time down under.

'Genuine' British players who do not play here would actually create far more interest and support than you give that scenario credit. The Australians by and large came here and crowds flocked in huge numbers to watch players they had not heard of or seen and once they had, they wanted even more.

That is a matter of opinion and we have never had an England or GB side dominated by players playing their trade overseas. I personally don't think people would buy into it if that happened.

Why not build stints to a partner club in the NRL at an early stage of a players career? Take the Burgess twins; Tom remained here and played SL first team for the Bulls whereas George went to the Rabbitohs spent a season in the Toyota Cup/NSW Reserve Grade and is now much more advanced than Tom and doing fantastic in first grade.

Why would players go for stints to come back here to earn less money? They can go on permanent deals and earn to their potential for the duration of their contracts.

There will always be some players who have no desire to move overseas but for those who want to I can't see any incentive to do it on a kind of part time basis where they go for a a year or two and them come back.

If our sport ever grasps the importance of international sport then British RL will grow and develop. The biggest disaster in British RL history was the international transfer ban brought about by people crying because some then big name were leaving to play in Australia.

That was all pre-Bosman. Maybe it was mistake and maybe we'd have been signing more Aussies and Kiwi's had it not been in place but I am not sure of the relevance to today's debate.