A post I wasted. Thought I would share it with TRUE RL fans

[Kaii]

Hiya all!! I am.new to the site , i.hope you will welcome me with open arms haha!! I respect everybodies opinions but i cannot get my head round why people criticise Wane, last year we won the league ( which in my opinion is the best trophy, forget about the money), we came up just short in the cup and in the money making knockout competition afterwards, This year we are top of the league and into the quarter finals of the cup so in my opinion i find it very hard to find anything to criticise Wane on

Welcome to the site and in complete agreement with you

[cpwigan]

Have you mentioned that to Wigan in 2013 and most SL teams to be honest as they okay exactly the same way whomever they play no matter what they say.

I used to believe as you say changing the game plan according to the opposition etc; still do to so extent BUT the core of a game plan is consistent and IMO the way Queensland approached Game 2 is the optimum way to play RL in this day and age, reasonably close to Wigan under Madge and as far away as possible from Wigan under Wane.

would you say Queenslands game plan in Origin1 was the same as they used in Origin2 but were just not allowed to utilise it?

No Michael. I managed the watch the pre game interviews and Mal et al stated they would be altering aspects of their approach. IMO, they played the perfect game of RL and I am a Blue

[morley pie eater]

FINALLY, the most important stat

Madge
2010 SL GF
2011 CC Win

Wane
2012
Fresh Air

N.B We can cry all we want about hubcap wins but the GF winners are always seen as the champions. I think it is wrong BUT tough titty on me and others who think the same; Read it in the paper / record books as they say.



And Wane thought / thinks he knows better / can do a better job It is akin to a robber being given the keys to a bank and STILL trying to break in!!!

Or like a supporter who thinks he knows more than a Coach.

Quite a bit of hard-nosed humour/sarcasm from both CP ("Fresh air","Hubcap", "tough titty"etc) and from WW. I'm sure SW is thick-skinned enough to take criticism from fans, and equally sure that CP is capable of accepting a bit of flak for his (deliberately) provocative opinions.

Dear "God" :eusa10:, why the need to call in the mods and berate WW?? Your Catholic and C of E people have enough problems for you to be dealing with without you interfering in a good clean argument about rugby :eusa18:

[morley pie eater]

Hiya all!! I am.new to the site , i.hope you will welcome me with open arms haha!! I respect everybodies opinions but i cannot get my head round why people criticise Wane, last year we won the league ( which in my opinion is the best trophy, forget about the money), we came up just short in the cup and in the money making knockout competition afterwards, This year we are top of the league and into the quarter finals of the cup so in my opinion i find it very hard to find anything to criticise Wane on

Welcome to the site and in complete agreement with you

. . . and the same from me

[morley pie eater]

I'm baffled by the Madge v Wane tone of much of this thread. One statistic that seems to have been overlooked is the players - Madge was/is brilliant, his achievements at Souths are with the players he has there. Ditto at Wigan. The squad under Wane is weaker than it was for Madge. If Madge had stayed the stats for 2013 wouldn't have been the same.

What is this all about??

Is it not inevitable Morley that you compare the progress a teams makes or does not make from one coach to another?

You mentioned the playing squad but forget that SL is also much weaker under Wane than it was for Madge. Why do you think our squad is weaker under Wane than it was for Madge?

CP, I respect your right to hold your opinions and I know you welcome all views. I know a bit about interpreting stats, but am resisting the temptation to get into a technical argument which would bore the pants off everyone.

It may be simplistic, but didn't we lose Leuluai, Finch, Carmont, Hoffman ... Tbh, I started this season expecting to be 5th or 6th at best by this stage, given the team we had and the need for key players like Green and Smith to find their feet. Add to that the injuries we've had and I'm over the moon at what SW and the team have achieved already.

My guess is that Dom Crosby, Andy Flower, Gil Dudson, Sam Powell and others would not have made the same progress under most other coaches - (whisper it) even including Madge, much as I respect him.

[cpwigan]

WW think about what you are saying re fans thinking they know more than RL coaches. Imagine if we followed the premise that we should all blindly accept what people say / do when they are in a position that a member of Joe Public is not. Where do you draw the line? etc etc.

Hopefully you will realise how silly your jibe was/is

Incidentally, Shaun Wane, a novice SL coach has been very forthright in expressing his opinions re his peers, some far more successful than he has been / ever will be. In particular about one Brian Noble offering to take over at Bradford. Now given your argument that you have to be appropriately qualified, Wane was wrong to criticise a far more qualified / successful Noble. Moreover, given he worked under Noble you may as you seem to do when it suits you, question his motive. Nor is any club owner qualified to appoint / judge / sack a RL coach by your premise.

[cpwigan]

FINALLY, the most important stat

Madge
2010 SL GF
2011 CC Win

Wane
2012
Fresh Air

N.B We can cry all we want about hubcap wins but the GF winners are always seen as the champions. I think it is wrong BUT tough titty on me and others who think the same; Read it in the paper / record books as they say.



And Wane thought / thinks he knows better / can do a better job It is akin to a robber being given the keys to a bank and STILL trying to break in!!!

Or like a supporter who thinks he knows more than a Coach.

Quite a bit of hard-nosed humour/sarcasm from both CP ("Fresh air","Hubcap", "tough titty"etc) and from WW. I'm sure SW is thick-skinned enough to take criticism from fans, and equally sure that CP is capable of accepting a bit of flak for his (deliberately) provocative opinions.

Dear "God" :eusa10:, why the need to call in the mods and berate WW?? Your Catholic and C of E people have enough problems for you to be dealing with without you interfering in a good clean argument about rugby :eusa18:

The Hub Cap Morley is what most RL fans refer to the League Leaders Trophy as because it looks like one. The tough titty was tough titty on ME. I know I go on and it is late but you need to read the posts which I know you could do with ease at a more 'normal' time etc.

I just say things as I find them without becoming personal towards others I hope and yes I am thick skinned etc.

Whether we agree or not, the RFL organise SL in such a way that the League Leaders is a token gesture nothing more. I discussed this with several fans face to face recently and as one stated, the original play off system was better whilst IMO whatever system is used it should favour the League Leaders heavily and make it as easy as possible for the team finishing 1st to get into the Grand Final. Fans need to be aware that most clubs would rather rest players / use some youngsters than field their best team week in week out and put everything into the League Leaders. No matter what I or anybody else thinks, the LL is not seen as comparable with winning the CC or the SL GF. The most ardent Wane advocates need to remember that Wane himself saw 2012 as a FAILURE. He said it HIMSELF. IL does not view the LL alone as acceptable either.

[cpwigan]

I'm baffled by the Madge v Wane tone of much of this thread. One statistic that seems to have been overlooked is the players - Madge was/is brilliant, his achievements at Souths are with the players he has there. Ditto at Wigan. The squad under Wane is weaker than it was for Madge. If Madge had stayed the stats for 2013 wouldn't have been the same.

What is this all about??

Is it not inevitable Morley that you compare the progress a teams makes or does not make from one coach to another?

You mentioned the playing squad but forget that SL is also much weaker under Wane than it was for Madge. Why do you think our squad is weaker under Wane than it was for Madge?

CP, I respect your right to hold your opinions and I know you welcome all views. I know a bit about interpreting stats, but am resisting the temptation to get into a technical argument which would bore the pants off everyone.

It may be simplistic, but didn't we lose Leuluai, Finch, Carmont, Hoffman ... Tbh, I started this season expecting to be 5th or 6th at best by this stage, given the team we had and the need for key players like Green and Smith to find their feet. Add to that the injuries we've had and I'm over the moon at what SW and the team have achieved already.

My guess is that Dom Crosby, Andy Flower, Gil Dudson, Sam Powell and others would not have made the same progress under most other coaches - (whisper it) even including Madge, much as I respect him.

I know you understand Stats MPE. I spent a lot of time chatting with Gaz. However, I am comfortable with my assumptions and my ability to interpret stats.

In terms of SL you need to compare the overall quality of the competition AND as you say the quality of the Wigan playing squad. To not include both renders any interpretation as weak to meaningless.

So lets start with SL in 2013. Would it be fair to say the competition as a whole has never been weaker in recent times? Last 10, last 5 years ? What do you think MPE?

[Owd Codger]

So you need to argue against the points they make and why their point of view is wrong rather than making points about their motivations and personalities.

That's the problem, they don't like anyone saying they are wrong!

[cpwigan]

So you need to argue against the points they make and why their point of view is wrong rather than making points about their motivations and personalities.

That's the problem, they don't like anyone saying they are wrong!

I can says that in time I have posted, posters who do as Mike suggests are welcomed by all. It leads to DEBATE and for that to happen you need posters to express and articulate their opinions. Life would be incredibly boring otherwise.