12 teams

[Mike]

I'm guess the RFL and clubs see this new structure as a system where promotion is *possible*, but not automatic. I'd guess most seasons the top and bottom 12s will stay the sames.

The upsides of the system are IMO:
* If a bottom 12 club have ambitions and funding to go for promotion, then they can go professional, win some matches and get into the top 12, potentially replacing a zombie club like wakefield. This forces top 12 clubs to up there game a bit when a geniune challenger emerges, and give the opportunity for investors to win promotion quickly for non-heartland clubs
* The bottom 12 clubs compete to play some of the top 12 in the second part of the season - these fixtures may be better attended and improve finances.
* If the club can't afford to go pro, it will stay semi-pro and be very unlikely to ever win promotion - which is a positive if the clubs structure can't cope.
* SL club very unlikely to drop to bottom 12, so can plan to remain in top 12 finanacially.

[DaveO]

I'm guess the RFL and clubs see this new structure as a system where promotion is *possible*, but not automatic. I'd guess most seasons the top and bottom 12s will stay the sames.

The upsides of the system are IMO:
* If a bottom 12 club have ambitions and funding to go for promotion, then they can go professional, win some matches and get into the top 12, potentially replacing a zombie club like wakefield. This forces top 12 clubs to up there game a bit when a geniune challenger emerges, and give the opportunity for investors to win promotion quickly for non-heartland clubs
* The bottom 12 clubs compete to play some of the top 12 in the second part of the season - these fixtures may be better attended and improve finances.
* If the club can't afford to go pro, it will stay semi-pro and be very unlikely to ever win promotion - which is a positive if the clubs structure can't cope.
* SL club very unlikely to drop to bottom 12, so can plan to remain in top 12 finanacially.

For all that to fall into place neatly would require a very favourable wind IMO.

What if the club that goes pro with the ambition to be promoted doesn't win promotion?

How are they going to afford to anyway without an even distribution of the salary cap? Would an even distribution support a full time club anyway?

Attendances fell when the Swiss tried this and I don't see the attraction of watching a semi-pro side v a pro side. It has not proved a crowd pleaser in the cup when it happens either.

For clubs with no prospect or desire to go full time what exactly does this offer their fans? Instead of competing for a cup or league against their peers which they might actually have a chance of winning, the best they can look forward to is an annual thrashing if they reach the middle eight.

[Owd Codger]

I'm guess the RFL and clubs see this new structure as a system where promotion is *possible*, but not automatic. I'd guess most seasons the top and bottom 12s will stay the sames.

The upsides of the system are IMO:
* If a bottom 12 club have ambitions and funding to go for promotion, then they can go professional, win some matches and get into the top 12, potentially replacing a zombie club like wakefield. This forces top 12 clubs to up there game a bit when a geniune challenger emerges, and give the opportunity for investors to win promotion quickly for non-heartland clubs
* The bottom 12 clubs compete to play some of the top 12 in the second part of the season - these fixtures may be better attended and improve finances.
* If the club can't afford to go pro, it will stay semi-pro and be very unlikely to ever win promotion - which is a positive if the clubs structure can't cope.
* SL club very unlikely to drop to bottom 12, so can plan to remain in top 12 finanacially.

For all that to fall into place neatly would require a very favourable wind IMO.

What if the club that goes pro with the ambition to be promoted doesn't win promotion?

How are they going to afford to anyway without an even distribution of the salary cap? Would an even distribution support a full time club anyway?

Attendances fell when the Swiss tried this and I don't see the attraction of watching a semi-pro side v a pro side. It has not proved a crowd pleaser in the cup when it happens either.

For clubs with no prospect or desire to go full time what exactly does this offer their fans? Instead of competing for a cup or league against their peers which they might actually have a chance of winning, the best they can look forward to is an annual thrashing if they reach the middle eight.

I for one would be interested to know what structure you would put into place in order to improve the game?

[Mike]

For all that to fall into place neatly would require a very favourable wind IMO.

What if the club that goes pro with the ambition to be promoted doesn't win promotion?

I'd say tough - they tried, they were given a structure to succeed in and they didnt' cut it. I think its better than never being given any opportunity to succeed (or like at present a very artificial "license bid" with no clarity or transparency at all).

How are they going to afford to anyway without an even distribution of the salary cap? Would an even distribution support a full time club anyway?

I'm envisioning a benefactor. A Kokash in a heartland club, or a new investor in a non-heartland area for example. We've not got many of these guys in the game and we've got to have a way for these people to take a club to the top of the game. Salary cap remains a problem that has not been address IIRC (and so does division of TV and sponsorship).

Attendances fell when the Swiss tried this and I don't see the attraction of watching a semi-pro side v a pro side. It has not proved a crowd pleaser in the cup when it happens either.

I'm also guessing that even falling attendences for SL clubs bottom 4 clubs will = an overall rise in attendences for Championship top 4 clubs. Overall attendences may fall in teh middle 8, but I'd bet that the championship clubs are assuming they'd be up for them.

For clubs with no prospect or desire to go full time what exactly does this offer their fans? Instead of competing for a cup or league against their peers which they might actually have a chance of winning, the best they can look forward to is an annual thrashing if they reach the middle eight.

Like us playing the NRL champions - they can look forward to playing some quality opposition in glamour ties without too much shame in losing but with plenty of glory in winning.

They also have the chance to win the cups that already exist for the reasons you outline above. I'm assuming the NR cup will still be in place in some form.

Overall, I think I'm saying that automatic promotion and relegation is worse than this system. You'd get two semi-pro clubs having to come up every year then go straight back down. That would be worse than a relegation playoffs system where you'd only get promotion eveyr now and again. Do you think thats true?

[nellywelly]

I'm guess the RFL and clubs see this new structure as a system where promotion is *possible*, but not automatic. I'd guess most seasons the top and bottom 12s will stay the sames.

The upsides of the system are IMO:
* If a bottom 12 club have ambitions and funding to go for promotion, then they can go professional, win some matches and get into the top 12, potentially replacing a zombie club like wakefield. This forces top 12 clubs to up there game a bit when a geniune challenger emerges, and give the opportunity for investors to win promotion quickly for non-heartland clubs
* The bottom 12 clubs compete to play some of the top 12 in the second part of the season - these fixtures may be better attended and improve finances.
* If the club can't afford to go pro, it will stay semi-pro and be very unlikely to ever win promotion - which is a positive if the clubs structure can't cope.
* SL club very unlikely to drop to bottom 12, so can plan to remain in top 12 finanacially.

For all that to fall into place neatly would require a very favourable wind IMO.

What if the club that goes pro with the ambition to be promoted doesn't win promotion?

How are they going to afford to anyway without an even distribution of the salary cap? Would an even distribution support a full time club anyway?

Attendances fell when the Swiss tried this and I don't see the attraction of watching a semi-pro side v a pro side. It has not proved a crowd pleaser in the cup when it happens either.

For clubs with no prospect or desire to go full time what exactly does this offer their fans? Instead of competing for a cup or league against their peers which they might actually have a chance of winning, the best they can look forward to is an annual thrashing if they reach the middle eight.

I for one would be interested to know what structure you would put into place in order to improve the game?

This will not work unless more money is given to the championship clubs. That means less for the superleaque clubs, no wonder we are against it. In the end standards will drop, more of our best players will go elsewhere it is a going to be a disaster. The only thing I think may help is for the salary cap to be increased to help the clubs with ambition to keep its class players

[cpwigan]

It does not help when the NRL and Union are raising their respective salary caps. Personally, I would be happy with an 8 club SL and a 12 club championship. The cap could then be raised in SL and the championship cap could be raised significantly.

[Mike]

4 team regoinal SL like Welsh RU? Then bring in other regions?

Where do you stop - two teams in Aus gives the most intense series.

[DaveO]

I for one would be interested to know what structure you would put into place in order to improve the game?

That is easy. The licensing system to remain. No P&R other than by achieving winning a license over one of the existing teams.

Ditch the magic weekend and replace it with a mid season international. If needs be "Emerging England" v the French.

Move the CC back to May and revert to a top five play off system, not top 8. I'd prefer a league championship myself but I accept play offs are popular.

Reduce the SL to 12 as well? Possibly.

That answer your question?

[cpwigan]

I look at it that eventually 20 strong clubs is better than what we have now or are promised. We only have 8 clubs capable of being called SL and such a small number allows the salary cap to be raised. Those 8 could even play less game with the room used for rep RL. More elite / rep RL would drive investment via the media to be fed back into the game as a whole. Far too many clubs want SL but are clearly not equipped for it. Leigh showed that v a Wigan XIII they can enjoy far better entertainment with close competitive games and could do so without bankrupting themselves.

[josie andrews]

I for one would be interested to know what structure you would put into place in order to improve the game?

That is easy. The licensing system to remain. No P&R other than by achieving winning a license over one of the existing teams.

Ditch the magic weekend and replace it with a mid season international. If needs be "Emerging England" v the French.

Move the CC back to May and revert to a top five play off system, not top 8. I'd prefer a league championship myself but I accept play offs are popular.

Reduce the SL to 12 as well? Possibly.

That answer your question?

Same answers I would give Dave, but also I would bring back the academy competitions, we need three at least. We are losing players thick & fast, not just to other clubs but to the game itself because of this crazy U19's only academy competition.