Dont Blame The Ref

[DaveO]

robjoenz posted:
Additionally I am informed that you could clearly see Kirkpatrick signal last tackle a few frames before the ball went down for a try from the sideline camera shot, in which case it was the video referee that was to blame.

No, you can't blame the video referee because he is not there to check if the ref called held or not.

KK will have asked him to judge if the attacking player grounded the ball on or over the line because he was unsighted. The video ref will only have been looking at that aspect of the play.

So the fault lies entirely with KK who, having called held and raised his hand for the 5th tackle then effectively decides the player was not held.

KK showed a complete lack of confidence in his own decsion making.

The defenders on hearing "held" would not expect to have to prevent the player from grounding the ball.

So having called held and raised his arm for the 5th tackle the dynamics of the situation were changed and he should have stuck by his decision. Penalty to Wigan.

IMO the ref reacted to the Wakefield crowd who cheered for a try after he had caled held. He did the same earlier in the game when he gave them a penalty when they all went bananas over a perfectly OK tackle.

He is, a quite useless referee.

Dave

[primrose-n-blue]

GO Karl K....so the wire DO eventually get a result at the JJB.
KK always a PnB.

[ian.birchall]

Wizard_Millward aka WNAC, time to change this sad sycophantic sign on. If Millward is a wizard I'm a Dutchman.

[Wildcat]

waterside glens posted:
i think if we manage to make top six it will be a false position though that looks unlikely now. we just aren,t good enough in cedrtain areas

Solomonas was a valid try just as Bj's was in the playoffs last year. He was put to ground by 4 Wigan defender and placed the ball over the Line - simple try! wasn't held down long enough for a completed tackle and wasn't a double movement and his elbow never touched the grass.

and we arent a poor side, we've been a good side playing poorly.

You die for any of our forwards.

[Fraggle]

Wildcat posted:
He was put to ground by 4 Wigan defender and placed the ball over the Line - simple try! wasn't held down long enough for a completed tackle and wasn't a double movement and his elbow never touched the grass.

I agree, but why did the ref call tackle complete when it wasn't? The players are trained to play to the whistle, and if the calls held and they carry on tackling then usually they concede a penalty for preventing the play-the-ball. I (at least) am not disputing the try, but I am disputing the ref's ability to control a game and he seems to have little idea of when a tackle is done or not - fine for a union ref but it's rubbish for an RL ref who has to get the game restarted several hundred times in a match - you'd think Mr Best Referee of Last Year would have learned by now.

[robjoenz]

Kirkpatrick was not to know whether the ball was grounded before he shouted held or after he shouted held. OK, going from the Wakefield fans reaction it appeared to be after, but in that mess of players the ball could have gone down before the shout was made. Anyone can shout and ball that Kirkpatrick is useless but whoever said he wasn't confident about his decision is totally right, which is the whole point of the video referee!

Had there been an in goal official present he would have just needed a quick word to say that the tackle was already complete, however, when the game is on SKY the video referee is supposed to replace the need for an in-goal judge so what was wrong with Kirkpatrick consulting him? Absolutely nothing!

Another argument is that the referee should stand in or behind the defensive line when the ball is near any teams try line, however, an in goal official would also do this job.

By the way Fraggle - Ganson was 'Mr Best Ref' last year! (Somehow) Kirkpatrick was the year before.

[mario]

ChrisA posted:

mario posted:

ChrisA posted: As I said, we beat oursleves, the officials madea bad call, one for each side, so it's irrelevant. Although I guess it may be easier for some to blame the ref, while those who know rugby can really see why we lost the game, because we are not good enough, it really is that simple.

Orrs try was a try! Even when your not good enough the officials shouldn't decide who wins the game.

Look at Orr's reaction when he gets up and somebody asks him, he says no, and even the Wigan team lined up ready for a restart on the 20 metre, even Betts reaction was one of surprise when it showed him. If the guy who scored says it isnt, and our team line up ready for a tap restart, what more evidence do you need ?

Chris with the massive amount of rugby you have watched over the years,surely at sometime you have seen a player think that he hasn't scored a try when in fact he has?

[Wildcat]

is it just me or isnt it a penalty to the attacking side when players dont get off after saying held???

shouldn't it then be advantage to wakefield.
maybe he placed his hand up because he thought solomona wasn't going to be able to score. then dropped the arm after seeing the miracle

why the hell did the video ref take 2 mins to give the try when he wasn't listening for KK's "Held!" maybe it was a Wigan player shouting held?

doesn't a player have to have full control of the ball when placing it down for a try?

anyway it makes up for us being robbed last year and just proves the refing is still erratic. shout of held or not it was a try.

[ChrisA]

mario posted:

ChrisA posted:

mario posted: Orrs try was a try! Even when your not good enough the officials shouldn't decide who wins the game.

Look at Orr's reaction when he gets up and somebody asks him, he says no, and even the Wigan team lined up ready for a restart on the 20 metre, even Betts reaction was one of surprise when it showed him. If the guy who scored says it isnt, and our team line up ready for a tap restart, what more evidence do you need ?

Chris with the massive amount of rugby you have watched over the years,surely at sometime you have seen a player think that he hasn't scored a try when in fact he has?

I think a player knows when hes lost possesion of the ball, I sure did.

[ChrisA]

Wildcat posted:

waterside glens posted:
i think if we manage to make top six it will be a false position though that looks unlikely now. we just aren,t good enough in cedrtain areas

Solomonas was a valid try just as Bj's was in the playoffs last year. He was put to ground by 4 Wigan defender and placed the ball over the Line - simple try! wasn't held down long enough for a completed tackle and wasn't a double movement and his elbow never touched the grass.

and we arent a poor side, we've been a good side playing poorly.

You die for any of our forwards.

Seriously dont flatter yourself, your an average side in an average league, outside of Leeds and Saints the rest are pretty average sides. I do think overall you play better than we do as a team and play to your strengths well, as for the remarks about your forwards, you have Solomona and Korkidas who are decent players. You played well enough to deserve the win last night I will give you that, that was a good perforamnce by Wakey standards, where as by ours it was very poor in many areas and you won by one try , enough said.