Castleford

[thegimble]

Jake Webster Cp.Battered Sarginson off the pitch ,who in my opinion can't play Centre ,he brought nothing to the team and Burgesses game suffers when Sarge his is Centre.

This is possibly one of the most ill informed and stupid comments I think I've ever read. Everyone has an opinion to which they are entitled, but opinions are normally based on some sort of facts, and there are absolutely no facts in this statement.

Webster did absolutely nothing except make one good pass during the entire game. The pass he made which resulted in the Dixon try wasn't due to Sarginson 'being battered off the pitch'. Faced with a 3 on 2, the defence slid well enough, Sarginson actually tackled Webster and took him into touch. The fault for that try was purely down to Budgie making a bad decision and that is all there is to it.

Don't give me any of that crap about it's the space he created on that side through the whole game, because quite simply, he didn't. The only other time they made any headway down that side was when Matty Smith kicked crossfield and into Dixon's arms, leaving him an open field to run at, and had it not been for Sarginson bringing Dixon down, he would have gone the length because there was nobody else to beat. In the entire game yesterday, there were very few line breaks by us, but the only break that had us running behind the Cas defence that nearly resulted in a try for Williams was made by Sarginson.

So now you've made the comment, let me know whereabouts it is in the game Sarge gets battered off the pitch? I've watched it twice now and I must have missed it.


Cas played better; our halfbacks were mostly ineffective; Farrel, Lockers looked tired and no wonder because they are not match fit; we dropped too much ball; it was a big ask for a young standoff; Gelling made a lot of headway and we should have exploited it more; in general, it went wrong and it happens. There is nobody to single out for 'special blame' based on mindless comments made without any base in fact.

For them, Luke Dorn and Daryl Clark probably stand out. Hard to pick one of them that had a bad game

How DARE you blame Budgie for that.

YOU should know by now that you can not blame a youth developed player when we have a ready made scapegoat in Sarge.

BTW your spot on it was Budgies mistake that effectively ended the game.

[cpwigan]

You can look at in many ways Gimble. Ultimately Burgess did not feel he could trust his inside man which dragged him infield. How often have Burgess and Sarge played together?

[thegimble]

You can look at in many ways Gimble. Ultimately Burgess did not feel he could trust his inside man which dragged him infield. How often have Burgess and Sarge played together?

Not often enough but neither of the wing centre combination have tbh.

Budgie should have stayed on his man even if Webster made a break Burgess could have put himself between both and he could have either stopped the try scorer or stopped Webster. It was a bad error of judgement especially given how tight they were to the side line.

Its ironic that Gelling is coming on as a centre and will have a new winger in a week or 2 and Budgie has had various centres with him. Lack of continuity is hurting us at times.

[cpwigan]

Totally agree about the lack of continuity which is vital for all players but particularly young ones and lest we forget Sarge is still relatively young.

The continuity was awful yesterday; Faz back first time in several games and IIRC Williams has been defending at 9 for weeks with Green/Powell defending the left edge.

[i'm spartacus]

You can look at in many ways Gimble. Ultimately Burgess did not feel he could trust his inside man which dragged him infield. How often have Burgess and Sarge played together?

And what reason did he have to not trust him?

As a matter of fact, if he believes something is going to happen, and it doesn't, the mistake is still his to make. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the inside man who did nothing wrong

In any event, why would not trust Sarginson?

Sarge is older and far more experienced at this level than Budgie, and as far as I could see, Sarge didn't make any defensive errors for the preceding 70 minutes. So how at this junction are you coming to a conclusion that 'Ultimately Burgess did not feel he could trust his inside man which dragged him infield'?
Not to mention the fact Budgie was outside of Sarginson when the pass was made, and he plainly and simply just made a balls of it.

[cpwigan]

Implicit in any team sport when defending is the trust and understanding players adjacent to each other have in one another. A lack of trust/understanding leads to mistakes particularly when an opponent makes a good play.

I am not playing the blame game as I understand that defensing out wide is the toughest position in RL re decision making. IMO, the lack of familiarity several Wigan players were confronted by yesterday was not good.

None of us know what / if any calls were made and none of us know what the game plan is for defending in such sitations. We do not know if the edge defenders are meant to go up and in or all slide together. The worst case is players not being familiar with their inside / outside teammates and doing entirely different strategies.

The Wigan centre / wings have looked somewhat confused throughout the season when defending. Every fringe defender made mistakes at various points in the game. The experienced, more familiar and trusting between Cas players in defence was there for all to see IMO.

P.S You are bit of Sarge disciple

[up the junction]

Jake Webster Cp.Battered Sarginson off the pitch ,who in my opinion can't play Centre ,he brought nothing to the team and Burgesses game suffers when Sarge his is Centre.

This is possibly one of the most ill informed and stupid comments I think I've ever read. Everyone has an opinion to which they are entitled, but opinions are normally based on some sort of facts, and there are absolutely no facts in this statement.

Webster did absolutely nothing except make one good pass during the entire game. The pass he made which resulted in the Dixon try wasn't due to Sarginson 'being battered off the pitch'. Faced with a 3 on 2, the defence slid well enough, Sarginson actually tackled Webster and took him into touch. The fault for that try was purely down to Budgie making a bad decision and that is all there is to it.

Don't give me any of that crap about it's the space he created on that side through the whole game, because quite simply, he didn't. The only other time they made any headway down that side was when Matty Smith kicked crossfield and into Dixon's arms, leaving him an open field to run at, and had it not been for Sarginson bringing Dixon down, he would have gone the length because there was nobody else to beat. In the entire game yesterday, there were very few line breaks by us, but the only break that had us running behind the Cas defence that nearly resulted in a try for Williams was made by Sarginson.

So now you've made the comment, let me know whereabouts it is in the game Sarge gets battered off the pitch? I've watched it twice now and I must have missed it.


Cas played better; our halfbacks were mostly ineffective; Farrel, Lockers looked tired and no wonder because they are not match fit; we dropped too much ball; it was a big ask for a young standoff; Gelling made a lot of headway and we should have exploited it more; in general, it went wrong and it happens. There is nobody to single out for 'special blame' based on mindless comments made without any base in fact.

For them, Luke Dorn and Daryl Clark probably stand out. Hard to pick one of them that had a bad game
[/quoteHow can my post be ill informed when I've not been been Informed of anything.As I said ,IN MY OPINION that's what it was ,my opinion to the question who in the Cas . Side is better than in our side ,and in my opinion which isn't stupid either,Webster Battered Sarge in the Centres ,which IN MY OPINION he did ,Sarge is never and will never be a centre ,there was quite a lot more to Websters game than that one pass,he played Sarge off the park.So please don't imply that I'm stupid.

[i'm spartacus]

How can my post be ill informed when I've not been been Informed of anything.As I said ,IN MY OPINION that's what it was ,my opinion to the question who in the Cas . Side is better than in our side ,and in my opinion which isn't stupid either,Webster Battered Sarge in the Centres ,which IN MY OPINION he did ,Sarge is never and will never be a centre ,there was quite a lot more to Websters game than that one pass,he played Sarge off the park.So please don't imply that I'm stupid.

In the first instance I said the comment was stupid. That implies nothing other than the comment was stupid, and it was stupid because it was factually incorrect. If you want to take it some other way, that is your problem and not mine.


Secondly, what you said was
Jake Webster battered Sarginson off the pitch.

Then you said

in your opinion Sarginson cannot play centre.

The second one is an opinion which I neither disagreed or agreed with in response.

The first one isn't an opinion, it is a statement of fact, and it is absolutely untrue on any level. If it is your opinion that he was battered of the pitch, please point me to where the battering started.

An informed comment or opinion is based on knowledge of the facts; you watch the game and the team as I do and your opinion on Sarginson as a centre is based on the facts as you see them and it is yours to have.
However, we both watched the game yesterday and we can take the facts from that game to make an argument as to where it went wrong. The facts are that at no point did Webster batter Sarge off the park, so whether you like it or not, you have not considered any of the facts, which means your comment was ill informed.

Definition of informed - having or prepared with information or knowledge.

You are absolutely correct when you say you have not been informed about anything, because you simply ignored the evidence of 80 minutes of Rugby League


I watched the game at the time, and twice on iplayer. This, 'there is more to Websters game' is total crap. There was nothing that Webster did do, or could do, to affect the game on that edge because they were completely contained on that edge save for the try, which was down to Budgie. The only other break they made on that edge was because Sarge as last line of defence had just pulled Dixon down and the line was in disarray due to the quick ptb, and the fact Sarge was on his arse.

Point me to the instances in the game were Webster got the upper hand? You cannot do it, because it didn't happen, and that is factual for anyone who wants to view the game again with a view to analysing it.


And to cpw, no I'm not a Sarge disciple, it just really kills my pig when people make a scapegoat out of someone who did nothing wrong.

[cpwigan]

I am not sure anybody from the Wigan team from coach to every player was blameless. I believe Sarge has potential but sadly he is still learning to play the game and where his best position actually is. I honestly do not know myself.

I personally see a very keen player with some evasive skill albeit it is a bit lateral and a tad one trick pony ploy. He made an excellent break v Cas. Defensively I did not see any glaring errors but I also did not see anything exceptional. The worst trait for me is that with Gelling / Sarge as your centres you have two runners who are essentially in the first instance selfish before they even consider using their winger. I cannot say what any of our centres / wingers are like in terms of on field communication. Ordinarily I would select Goulding before Sarge / Gel but he has been average at best this season, possibly injured / less than 100% fit?

I do think if we are honest and I know we try to think positively but Sarge / Gel and even Goulding perhaps are not centres of the highest quality. I have more faith in Goulding personally. Nevertheless, Sarge and Gel are not in the same class as proper Wigan centres IMO!

[platt-warrior]

I am not sure anybody from the Wigan team from coach to every player was blameless. I believe Sarge has potential but sadly he is still learning to play the game and where his best position actually is. I honestly do not know myself.

I personally see a very keen player with some evasive skill albeit it is a bit lateral and a tad one trick pony ploy. He made an excellent break v Cas. Defensively I did not see any glaring errors but I also did not see anything exceptional. The worst trait for me is that with Gelling / Sarge as your centres you have two runners who are essentially in the first instance selfish before they even consider using their winger. I cannot say what any of our centres / wingers are like in terms of on field communication. Ordinarily I would select Goulding before Sarge / Gel but he has been average at best this season, possibly injured / less than 100% fit?

I do think if we are honest and I know we try to think positively but Sarge / Gel and even Goulding perhaps are not centres of the highest quality. I have more faith in Goulding personally. Nevertheless, Sarge and Gel are not in the same class as proper Wigan centres IMO!

Bring back Gleeson