DISGRACEFUL

[TrueBlueWarrior]

2 blokes are in a bar let's call them Plant and Hawaii. They both see a really attractive girl that they are interested in, let's call her Oval. They both make a move for her at the same time and Hawaii blocks Plants root. Plant is aggressive in retaliation and pushes him to the ground. Oval moves on to another area of the Trafford Inn Bar. Plant sees she is alone again and makes a move but stumbles in front of her knocking her drink out of her hand and to compound matters Hawaii runs over with a knife and slices him. Luckily he only loses a couple of leaves and bounces back up to slice Hawaii back with 2 very aggressive acts. Hawaii is worse off but both survive the attacks. As there is an off duty cop in the bar called Bentham he makes a citizens arrest on Plant only and leaves Hawaii to shrug off his flesh wound and enjoy the rest of his night. Plant on the other hand has to go to the local police station in Yorkshire and be made out to be the only perpetrator in this bar fight.

Fair? Or should the Policeman have arrested both?

[Wigan_forever1985]

Ok tbw i see wht your trying to do but let me put what i think is a more suitable anaolgy forward

You and your mate are on a night out . Your walking down the street and a couple of lads are messing about chasing eachother one of the lads shouts to you mate "move pr1ck! Your mate doesnt keeps wlking as he was and the lad smacks him to the groud as he runs past your mate gets up obviously pissed runs over to him lauching a crossed forearm charge only te lad isnt knock over and he knocks your mate out vold then stamps on his head while he was on the floor.

Would tou expect yorur mate to be arrested?

[thegimble]

Ok tbw i see wht your trying to do but let me put what i think is a more suitable anaolgy forward

You and your mate are on a night out . Your walking down the street and a couple of lads are messing about chasing eachother one of the lads shouts to you mate "move pr1ck! Your mate doesnt keeps wlking as he was and the lad smacks him to the groud as he runs past your mate gets up obviously pissed runs over to him lauching a crossed forearm charge only te lad isnt knock over and he knocks your mate out vold then stamps on his head while he was on the floor.

Would tou expect yorur mate to be arrested?

If both hits each-other both should be arrested. Do you think both should have been arrested.

What you are missing the point is this.

Deliberate contact to the head is a sending off offence. What you fail to see is that both parties made deliberate contact to the head. Regardless of mitigation both should suffer for their crimes.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Ok tbw i see wht your trying to do but let me put what i think is a more suitable anaolgy forward

You and your mate are on a night out . Your walking down the street and a couple of lads are messing about chasing eachother one of the lads shouts to you mate "move pr1ck! Your mate doesnt keeps wlking as he was and the lad smacks him to the groud as he runs past your mate gets up obviously pissed runs over to him lauching a crossed forearm charge only te lad isnt knock over and he knocks your mate out vold then stamps on his head while he was on the floor.

Would tou expect yorur mate to be arrested?

Yes both should be arrested, however my mate should receive a lesser punishment from the courts or RFL!!

[The booze hound]

Ben Flower's first punch can be defended to a certain extent but his second punch is not, in any way, defendable. I'm sure any Wigan fans trying to defend him would not be doing the same if the same happened with roles reversed and a Saints player punching a prone Wigan player or if it happened to their son playing Sunday rugby.
Although what he's done cannot be condoned Ben needs our support now more than ever because he must be in a horrible place right now. I feel extremely disappointed with what he has done and he probably cost us this years title but he is a Wigan player and any Wigan player will get my support, especially when they need it most.

[thegimble]

Ben Flower's first punch can be defended to a certain extent but his second punch is not, in any way, defendable. I'm sure any Wigan fans trying to defend him would not be doing the same if the same happened with roles reversed and a Saints player punching a prone Wigan player or if it happened to their son playing Sunday rugby.
Although what he's done cannot be condoned Ben needs our support now more than ever because he must be in a horrible place right now. I feel extremely disappointed with what he has done and he probably cost us this years title but he is a Wigan player and any Wigan player will get my support, especially when they need it most.

Out of curiosity who is actually defending him on here.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Ben Flower's first punch can be defended to a certain extent but his second punch is not, in any way, defendable. I'm sure any Wigan fans trying to defend him would not be doing the same if the same happened with roles reversed and a Saints player punching a prone Wigan player or if it happened to their son playing Sunday rugby.
Although what he's done cannot be condoned Ben needs our support now more than ever because he must be in a horrible place right now. I feel extremely disappointed with what he has done and he probably cost us this years title but he is a Wigan player and any Wigan player will get my support, especially when they need it most.

Out of curiosity who is actually defending him on here.

Exactly, I have never defended what he did, it was an obvious red card, as was what Hohaia did!

[thegimble]

Ben Flower's first punch can be defended to a certain extent but his second punch is not, in any way, defendable. I'm sure any Wigan fans trying to defend him would not be doing the same if the same happened with roles reversed and a Saints player punching a prone Wigan player or if it happened to their son playing Sunday rugby.
Although what he's done cannot be condoned Ben needs our support now more than ever because he must be in a horrible place right now. I feel extremely disappointed with what he has done and he probably cost us this years title but he is a Wigan player and any Wigan player will get my support, especially when they need it most.

Out of curiosity who is actually defending him on here.

Still waiting for you to name people.

[Kittwazzer]

I don't think drawing parallels to what would have happened in a fight in the street re the second punch stands up.

It wasn't a street fight where 999 times out 1000 there is no referee (copper!) close by. It was a pro RL player who had just been hit on the chin in the biggest game of his career.

So he reacts and then goes in for some more. On the street I can see that happening. In a game? No. He is supposed to be a professional player.

We can all adopt the excuse of "If someone hit me like that i'd..." but all you lose for doing that is, well, nothing unless the police are involved.

In a game, particularly a final, you will be sent off and as a result your side will lose the match. As we did.

The two situations, street v game, are just not the same at all.

Correct. All this 'if it happened in the street', etc is completely irrelevant. If I were to commit a perfectly legal rugby tackle on a pedestrian in Standishgate, I would expect to face the courts.
As for the ex polis man looking down on the teaching profession, I would just mention that Hillsborough, Rochdale, Rotherham et al have lost the thin blue line any credibility they had with me. And there wasn't much to start with!

Kitt please read the post. I didn't criticize the teaching profession I criticized the comments made by someone I believed to be a teacher. If you cannot qoute a post correctly may I suggest someone reads and explains what was written in a post before you comment on it.

This is what you said about a man who, like him or not, has an excellent 20 or so reputation in his chosen vocation. A vocation which did not falsify evidence at Hillsborough, disregard the child abuse at Rotherham, destroy damning evidence about Cyril Smith or enjoy cosy lunches with Jimmy Savile:

"CP I remember hearing somewhere that you are, or were, a teacher. I'm glad you have never taught any of my children in your comments trying to justify Flowers actions. As a retired Police Officer I class Flowers actions, hitting a semi conscious man when he's lying there defenceless are those of a total coward. I have met plenty of them when I was serving. For me, by tomorrow morning Flowers would be walking through the club door for the last time. It was right he was sent off. We all know that Rugby League is hard game, but there is no excuse for Flowers actions with the second punch. He lost us the game."

[The booze hound]

Ben Flower's first punch can be defended to a certain extent but his second punch is not, in any way, defendable. I'm sure any Wigan fans trying to defend him would not be doing the same if the same happened with roles reversed and a Saints player punching a prone Wigan player or if it happened to their son playing Sunday rugby.
Although what he's done cannot be condoned Ben needs our support now more than ever because he must be in a horrible place right now. I feel extremely disappointed with what he has done and he probably cost us this years title but he is a Wigan player and any Wigan player will get my support, especially when they need it most.

Out of curiosity who is actually defending him on here.

Still waiting for you to name people.

I'm glad you took time to read my post but maybe next time read it without adding things to it. I did not say anyone on this forum defended the foolish thuggery, so asking me to name people on here who are defending Ben is a pointless exercise. If you would like to read what I actually said was that after what has happened Ben will be in need of support and as a Wigan player he will still get my support.