Grade F Offence for Flower

[The booze hound]

I've just looked at the RFL disciplary and their brief notes on Flower's and Hohaia's charges.
Ben Flower: punching - violent and aggressive. Opponent off guard. Grade F
Lance Hohaia: strikes with forearm. Grade B
I must have seen it very differently to the RFL because I'd say flower was off guard when he was struck flush in the jaw with a forearm/elbow in a violent manner. Are the RFL saying running 15+ yards to elbow/forearm smash someone in the jaw is not violent? It wasn't a mis-timed tackle it was an off the ball incident. I'm not saying Flower's charge is harsh I'm saying Hohaia's is unduly lenient.

[Wiganer Ted]

The grade B for Hohaia is a joke and a pathetic one at that. When you freeze the TV picture of Hohaia's elbow hitting Flower's jaw he knocked Ben off his feet and the grimace of pain is evident.
Perhaps Flower reacted so violently as he then thought his jaw had been deliberately broken.
What also worries me is that for the successive GF players have had their faces smashed in and the match officials did not do anything about it to the instigator.
Difficult for the on field officials but the two VR's have no excuse. If the SKY pictures of Hohaia running 25 mtrs to smash Flower's jaw in were available to Wells and Carney then they were available to the VR's. Yet they sat there and for the second year didn't do anything.
Last year Green was bent over injured and Silverwood said "I didn't see anything" and played on. He said that whilst the whole SKY world and VR's are watching images of Westwood smashing Green's face in. The VR's did not do anything.
Their procedures need improving and massively as the present guidelines they are working to have failed.
End of Rant........I think!

[lucky 13]

I've just looked at the RFL disciplary and their brief notes on Flower's and Hohaia's charges.
Ben Flower: punching - violent and aggressive. Opponent off guard. Grade F
Lance Hohaia: strikes with forearm. Grade B
I must have seen it very differently to the RFL because I'd say flower was off guard when he was struck flush in the jaw with a forearm/elbow in a violent manner. Are the RFL saying running 15+ yards to elbow/forearm smash someone in the jaw is not violent? It wasn't a mis-timed tackle it was an off the ball incident. I'm not saying Flower's charge is harsh I'm saying Hohaia's is unduly lenient.

Just e mailed them to ask why the grade is not higher .... its stated in rules off the ball offence carries higher grade.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Wrongly????

Can't agree with that CP.

Reckon Wigan could have Rumpole of the Bailey and Kavanagh QC defending him and Ben will be lucky to get away with a half season ban.

Which in all fairness, he deserves.

As for Hohaia, he's always been a niggling scrote. I'm glad he's not badly injured but he deserved the first punch. Reckon with the second one, Ben didn't realise Hohaia was sparked out, as if he was a true thug, he'd have carried on thumping him, like the RU bloke did. As it was, he jumped off him straight after the second punch.

So is what Flower did the worst act you have seen on a Rugby field?

Why does that matter? It's worth at least 8 matches in its own right but the fact its gone viral in the media and the terrible PR for RL it represents means there could well be bigger consequences.

We will have to see if the RFL play it by the book on any ban or respond to the media frenzy.

Then we will have to see if there is anything in what Saints are saying about any legal action depending what happens with the ban.

Course it matters because if he receives the longest/harshest ban that has ever been handed out than that means the RFL think it is the worst act of violence they have ever dealt with on a RL pitch. So I ask you again is it the worst offence you have ever seen? Was it as bad as Hohaia's, Westwood last year, Chase elbow in CC, Hunte on Offiah, Graham biting, Hardaker gouging Hill etc.

[josie andrews]

Two Players Charged Following Grand Final

Two players have been charged with disciplinary offences committed in the 2014 First Utility Super League Grand Final, St Helens v Wigan Warriors played at Old Trafford, Manchester, on Saturday October 11.

Ben Flower of Wigan Warriors has been charged with the Grade F offence of violent and aggressive punching/punching an off-guard opponent (Lance Hohaia) in the second minute of the match.

Hohaia has been charged with the Grade B offence of striking Flower with the forearm in the second minute. Hohaia has until 11.00am on Tuesday to submit an Early Guilty Plea.

Flower does not have the option of submitting an Early Guilty Plea and will appear before an independent disciplinary tribunal in Leeds on Tuesday evening.


http://www.wiganwarriors.com/WContent.a ... bHgWFaU.99

[Fujiman]

However, if the RFL have charged LH then by doing so they admit the match officials got it wrong and that there is a valid argument that Ben Flower was responding (albeit) unacceptably to being assaulted. Wigan RLFC MUST go in heavily for Ben otherwise he will be left WRONGLY to be hung, drawn and quartered.

If LH had never instigated what happened then none of it would have happened. St Helens were out of control from the kick off and the match officials failed to exercise control.

Flower instigated it CP not LH. We should take whats coming our way and move on.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

So am I right in think Hohaia could get 1 game? Flower potentially 8 minimum?

It pretty much sums up the Disciplinary/Legal systems right throughout our country.

Was flowers worth 7+, potentially 10+ more games than Hohaia's act?

It's like someone shooting someone with a gun, the victim pulls out a slightly bigger gun and fires it twice back, they both survive and one gets a year in prison and the other 10!!

[jobo]

However, if the RFL have charged LH then by doing so they admit the match officials got it wrong and that there is a valid argument that Ben Flower was responding (albeit) unacceptably to being assaulted. Wigan RLFC MUST go in heavily for Ben otherwise he will be left WRONGLY to be hung, drawn and quartered.

If LH had never instigated what happened then none of it would have happened. St Helens were out of control from the kick off and the match officials failed to exercise control.

Wrongly????

Can't agree with that CP.

Reckon Wigan could have Rumpole of the Bailey and Kavanagh QC defending him and Ben will be lucky to get away with a half season ban.

Which in all fairness, he deserves.

As for Hohaia, he's always been a niggling scrote. I'm glad he's not badly injured but he deserved the first punch. Reckon with the second one, Ben didn't realise Hohaia was sparked out, as if he was a true thug, he'd have carried on thumping him, like the RU bloke did. As it was, he jumped off him straight after the second punch.

So is what Flower did the worst act you have seen on a Rugby field?

No, Jim Mills stamping on the head of a prone player, also in a televised game was probably the worst.

A bit of deja vu, Mills being Welsh and Greengrass being a Kiwi.

In Bens favour is his disciplinary record. Mills was always at it and only copped a 6 month ban in England, although he was banned for life in NZ.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

However, if the RFL have charged LH then by doing so they admit the match officials got it wrong and that there is a valid argument that Ben Flower was responding (albeit) unacceptably to being assaulted. Wigan RLFC MUST go in heavily for Ben otherwise he will be left WRONGLY to be hung, drawn and quartered.

If LH had never instigated what happened then none of it would have happened. St Helens were out of control from the kick off and the match officials failed to exercise control.

Flower instigated it CP not LH. We should take whats coming our way and move on.

They had a coming together because LH tried to block Flower and Flower pushed him to the ground, if that warranted LH running 30 yards to smash him in the face with a forearm then I hope to god I never bang into you in the bar at DW stadium!!

[cpwigan]

However, if the RFL have charged LH then by doing so they admit the match officials got it wrong and that there is a valid argument that Ben Flower was responding (albeit) unacceptably to being assaulted. Wigan RLFC MUST go in heavily for Ben otherwise he will be left WRONGLY to be hung, drawn and quartered.

If LH had never instigated what happened then none of it would have happened. St Helens were out of control from the kick off and the match officials failed to exercise control.

Flower instigated it CP not LH. We should take whats coming our way and move on.

I apologise you are correct regarding first contact. However, that means LH after being pushed ran 20 yards with 20 seconds to think before thrusting his forearms / elbows into a player. Rightly, people argue Ben made a mistake with the second punch but he moved a yard? and had 2-5 seconds to think making LH even more premeditated / guilty? Yes / No?

LH is equally guilty IMO and the RFL match officials are for allowing the match to boil over from the kick off. NOBODY is blame free. Not BF, not LH, not the RFL.