Six month ban for Flower

[stegy]

Well i think i can just about accept the award however it is clearly doubble standard by the RFL yet again. Look back to the magic weekend a few years ago V St Helens and the cheap shoot by the biggest prick in super league LMS we got a ban that day and he got away with it if my memory serves me. Pity it wasn't Scarsbrook that Flower punched i would have accepted a life time ban and a front row seat for that one.

[cpwigan]

Yeah you can. TNs was increased to 7 months.

You really think that arguing and not apologising would have led to a shorter ban? And made us look like we weren't condoning the punch? I think that is a bit far removed from reality TBH.

NOT REALLY MIKE. You defend hard or you get walked over. Men and women defended properly can escape RL murder charges so a RL disciplinary hearing is easy in comparison.

You argued apologising was the right thing and it would be a good move. Clearly that has not been the case. The whole episode was contrived and we (our club / fans) allowed it to happen. Justice was not served from the the game itself to post match.

You do not need to condone the punch. You simply use the already proven extreme provocation and countless examples of far worse acts that resulted in much lower bans.

We have sold our own down the river and that is sickening. A dark day for our club and supporters to do that to someone who gives everything in Cherry n White.

So you really do think that pleading not guilty in a no-win scenario would work. There is not a chance of that happening here simply due to the media attention. You can argue all you like about how thinks should be, but you actually have to deal with the situation as it is.

As I said, we can use this to hopefully achieve a far more consistent disciplinary process in the future, but right now we have no chance of doing that. No chance.

You do not argue guilt. You argue provocation and attack LH. Find me an example where a player in RL has sprinted 30 yards to thrust his arms/elbows into the face of an opponent and been 'rewarded' with a 1 match ban and an apology from all and sundry for acting like a crazed lunatic. Your defence is to attack the crazed lunatic who provoked a similar reaction. You then attack the Kangaroo Court. A decent defence lawyer would do both of those.

I put some videos on here the other day of past assalts by Saints players on Wigan players. At no point did Saints ever apologise and at no point did the RFL ensure justice was served.

Ben Flower punched a crazed lunatic twice. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS and he was sold down the river by his club and many of his fans. How ironic Bill Ashurst was being cherished and worshipped as a Wigan hero by our own supporters association despite being by his own admittance a dirsty so and so. Yet, we cannot even try to defend Ben Flower, a player who ordinarily plays the game hard and clean until a crazed lunatic sprints 30 yards to assault him.

[John Ferguson]

You cannot and would not gain a bigger ban Mike.

Yeah you can. TNs was increased to 7 months.

You really think that arguing and not apologising would have led to a shorter ban? And made us look like we weren't condoning the punch? I think that is a bit far removed from reality TBH.

NOT REALLY MIKE. You defend hard or you get walked over. Men and women defended properly can escape RL murder charges so a RL disciplinary hearing is easy in comparison.

You argued apologising was the right thing and it would be a good move. Clearly that has not been the case. The whole episode was contrived and we (our club / fans) allowed it to happen. Justice was not served from the the game itself to post match.

You do not need to condone the punch. You simply use the already proven extreme provocation and countless examples of far worse acts that resulted in much lower bans.

We have sold our own down the river and that is sickening. A dark day for our club and supporters to do that to someone who gives everything in Cherry n White.

You seem to be suggesting that he shouldn't have apologised? That's ridiculous. For one, no doubt he felt absolutely gutted that he let himself and his teammates down not to mention the club and the supporters, and so apologising was the least he could do.

By doing so, nobody is selling anybody down the river. It is such pig headed and stubborn attitudes like that that prevent progress being made.

Secondly, the amount of press that this incident has unfortunately generated, that can you imagine the furore that would be created by not apologising? It would certainly show the club and the game itself in a poor light if he had not expressed him regret.

[Kiwiseddon]

I have been the first to state that the RFL is not corrupt. The first to defend Hohaia's actions, the first to try and adopt an objective policy but to be honest, with the way I'm feeling about this, the RFL can go and **** themselves. They've set a dangerous and stupid precedent here which is totally OTT.
A total load of corrupt shite!

[cpwigan]

he sold himself down the river CP. yes there were other factors but he's got to be responsible for his own actions.

crying foul would just make the club look terrible. potentially lose sponsors and money. IL has spent several years trying to improve our reputation and you want him to undo all that by defending the indefensible!!

No it wouldn't and no we would not. Undo what? Wigan have always been hated for being too good. It has always been so. The RFL & other clubs want Wigan for its supporter base, the prefer an unsuccessful Wigan though and could not give a hoot by what IL does to massage their egos. Does any sane Wiganer care what the RFL and certain others think about Wigan? I do not.

I don't care what other clubs think but maybe IL does, maybe he needs backing from other chairman for things we don't know about.

Rugby league in general struggles for sponsors so we don't want to give them any more reason to ignore us.

Why as Mike states all publicity is good publicity. Do you think Eric Cantona lost or gained Man Uts sponsors despite some incredible behaviour?

Let's not pretend; companies want to be associated with well supported sports / clubs.

[chubbybigcat]

I just think that there has to be some sort of consistency and parity between offences and punishment and there isn't- it was always going to be a big ban but what about the other infractions by other teams- i have had so many people at work (most not league followners)remarking on the hohia/flower incident- not one of them mentions hohia's actions-as a posterinferred earlier- damned and guilty by the media to a large degree

[cpwigan]

Yeah you can. TNs was increased to 7 months.

You really think that arguing and not apologising would have led to a shorter ban? And made us look like we weren't condoning the punch? I think that is a bit far removed from reality TBH.

NOT REALLY MIKE. You defend hard or you get walked over. Men and women defended properly can escape RL murder charges so a RL disciplinary hearing is easy in comparison.

You argued apologising was the right thing and it would be a good move. Clearly that has not been the case. The whole episode was contrived and we (our club / fans) allowed it to happen. Justice was not served from the the game itself to post match.

You do not need to condone the punch. You simply use the already proven extreme provocation and countless examples of far worse acts that resulted in much lower bans.

We have sold our own down the river and that is sickening. A dark day for our club and supporters to do that to someone who gives everything in Cherry n White.

You seem to be suggesting that he shouldn't have apologised? That's ridiculous. For one, no doubt he felt absolutely gutted that he let himself and his teammates down not to mention the club and the supporters, and so apologising was the least he could do.

By doing so, nobody is selling anybody down the river. It is such pig headed and stubborn attitudes like that that prevent progress being made.

Secondly, the amount of press that this incident has unfortunately generated, that can you imagine the furore that would be created by not apologising? It would certainly show the club and the game itself in a poor light if he had not expressed him regret.

What progress? A total injustice, a kangaroo court, a sports disciplinary system becoming a joke.

The apology achieved nothing. It was probably drafted by somebody and Wigan RLFC insisted / advised Ben to make it. YET, it achieved nothing other than allowing the RFL bring the sport into the ultimate disrepute with its kangaroo court.

You defend your player from the moment the incident took place. Yes, the punches were regrettable (If only Ben punched like a wet lettuce) but the crazed lunatic sprinting 30 yards to thrust his forearms and elbows into the jaw of an opponent off the ball was the route to go. Mitigation from start to finish had to be the call. Apologising / kissing ass has led to an injustice and the RFL dragging our sport to the gutter again.

[GBH]

Your strategy would be...?

The outcome you expect would be...?

Let me fill that in for you.

Strategy: Argue that Flower was justified and that LHs punishment should be equivalent both in public and at teh RFL.

Outcome: be pilloried in the national press even more, get an even bigger ban. Gain nothing. Lose more.

Agreed! totally let our player down

You cannot and would not gain a bigger ban Mike. Kissing ass achieved nothing. Who cares about the press. IIRC, you argued any press is good press did you not 24 hours ago.

Ben Flower had a case that could be defended and should have been. The case for the defence was even supported by the contrived LH suspension albeit he openly admitted in doing so that he assaulted Ben Flower and the RFL agreed that he did so, sprinting 30 yards to do so. In kissing ass we let LH / the RFL off the hook. JUSTICE was not served. I am ashamed to be a Wigan supporter tonight knowing our great cub sold one of its own down the river!

Agreed!!

[DaveO]

Ben Flower punched a crazed lunatic twice. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS and he was sold down the river by his club and many of his fans. How ironic Bill Ashurst was being cherished and worshipped as a Wigan hero by our own supporters association despite being by his own admittance a dirsty so and so. Yet, we cannot even try to defend Ben Flower, a player who ordinarily plays the game hard and clean until a crazed lunatic sprints 30 yards to assault him.

There is nothing wrong with Flowers ban. It's one SL game more than I envisaged.

If it is more than other similar offences in the recent past then they are the ones that were punished incorrectly.

The problem is LH's ban. It should be three or four matches.

McManus is arguing now is the time to overhaul the system and be consistent. I have my doubts he meant LH didn't get a long enough ban but in principle he is right about the overhaul.

I can remember when it was an automatic 8 match ban for a high tackle. Joe Lydon was done for this. I much prefer automatic bans instead of a panel who can, as they have done, let LH off with 1 game due to the stupid early guilty plea rule (I don't like this "plea bargain" either).

With automatic bans in place they would be on about 4 and 6 each IMO.

[Mike]

You defend your player from the moment the incident took place. Yes, the punches were regrettable (If only Ben punched like a wet lettuce) but the crazed lunatic sprinting 30 yards to thrust his forearms and elbows into the jaw of an opponent off the ball was the route to go. Mitigation from start to finish had to be the call. Apologising / kissing ass has led to an injustice and the RFL dragging our sport to the gutter again.

Cloud cuckoo land.