Hooker

[cpwigan]

You need to factor in minutes played re any stats. 80 minutes of Roby v 55 minutes of Mac should equal more tackles by Roby, more tackles by other hookers playing 80 minutes.

I think SKY reports show you how many minutes players played.

[platt-warrior]

I can't remember,does Roby play the full 80 minutes?

[morley pie eater]

I like your approach, Markill, and agree 100% with your comments on MM.

Stats never tell the full story with key players like half-backs & hookers. I compare MM with Jimmy Lowes insofar as he gets under the skin of the opposition tho difficult to produce stats to back this up.

[Smokie Jim]

Mac works hard particularly in defence but the quality is not there more than ever particularly in attack so the resting is not work. In a recent game for the first time IMO Logan had a positive impact replacing Mac which whilst Logan has busted a gut to improve says more about Mac than Logan.

I've personally never really rated Mac always thought he was such a limited number 9, average distribution, no pace, and not the cleverest upstairs especially rugby brain wise

It' not difficult. For me to see your person who can distinguish cheap plonk from Champagne,chalk from cheese, Red Rum from Dobbin. Roby is in a League of his own in Superleague MM is a footnote in the annals of also rans The sooner Wayne recognises the need for a supernarary half back the better(ie a No9!)

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Mac works hard particularly in defence but the quality is not there more than ever particularly in attack so the resting is not work. In a recent game for the first time IMO Logan had a positive impact replacing Mac which whilst Logan has busted a gut to improve says more about Mac than Logan.

I've personally never really rated Mac always thought he was such a limited number 9, average distribution, no pace, and not the cleverest upstairs especially rugby brain wise

It' not difficult. For me to see your person who can distinguish cheap plonk from Champagne,chalk from cheese, Red Rum from Dobbin. Roby is in a League of his own in Superleague MM is a footnote in the annals of also rans The sooner Wayne recognises the need for a supernarary half back the better(ie a No9!)

What do you base your opinion on? Roby's failure to win a major trophy without KC leading the way? Then he wins a GF last year against 12, guess what no MM!! Maybe it's his fantastic international record, oh wait a minute!! Roby has always been found wanting in the big games, whereas MM delivers on his own without a KC supporting him! Also look at the head to heads when it matters, it's as if Roby isn't on the pitch!! You can throw whatever stats you want at me throughout a season but when it really matters MM steps up!! Don't get me wrong Roby is a good player but if you asked him who his toughest opponent is, he would say MM, why? Because he gets bullied by him!! Just going to enjoy my cheap champagne with some mature cheddar while watching Dobbin re-runs!!

[Wigan_forever1985]

Think the problem for Mickey Mac unless unless you watch him in singularity you don't fully appreciate what he does for the team. Roby is a scooting hooker and its always easier for this type of hooker to look good because they make breaks.

I think if you asked the players who they would rather play against most would pick roby. Nobody likes running at Mickey Mac and he can do a lot more than just tackle he is shackled by the game plan quite a lot.

His is pretty good at kicking from dummy half but again get the feeling he is encouraged not to.

[Panchitta Marra]

Reasonable point. After work I'll put up the 2014 ones too if you like.

That would be good, don't get me wrong Roby is quality but i prefer Micky's style of play. Roby imo only shines when the halves are playing well and running the game.

With you all the way Kaii!!

For me Roby looks the better BUT in the big games he is usually found wanting were as MM stands up!! Would I swap MM for Roby, no way!!

As I said before, MM plays the GF we win, even with 12 v 13!!

Said the very same at the game TBW, Mac was as big a miss as us going down to 12 men. Roby for sure wouldn't have been anywhere near MOM if Mac had been playing that game fit.

[markill]

You need to factor in minutes played re any stats. 80 minutes of Roby v 55 minutes of Mac should equal more tackles by Roby, more tackles by other hookers playing 80 minutes.

I think SKY reports show you how many minutes players played.

Minutes played is a hard stat to get for free unfortunately CP. Annoys me as agree its a great one for any analysis. It doesn't mean comparisons meaningless though. Also, take tackle success - you would think that more minutes would equal lower tackle success in theory as you'd expect more misses with more fatigue. That's what makes Roby so impressive though - his efficiency in his output doesn't diminish despite being on for 80 minutes.

[markill]

Reasonable point. After work I'll put up the 2014 ones too if you like.

That would be good, don't get me wrong Roby is quality but i prefer Micky's style of play. Roby imo only shines when the halves are playing well and running the game.

I think its the opposite - the halves only shine when Roby is running the show and playing well. I guess I'm just a big Roby fan. I wasn't until he became an 80 minute player and actually seemed to get better! Not that I dislike McIlorum as I've said, and I'm just giving numbers, I'll let others draw conclusions.

2014 - regular season
Tackles per game - MM:25 JR:40 LT:26 All hooker ave:25
Tackle success - MM:92.2% JR:96.8% LT:94.0% All ave:93.6%
Busts/games - MM:16/15 JR:62/26 LT:13/22
Breaks/games - MM:2/15 JR:10/26 LT:2/22
Tries - MM:2 JR:7 LT:3
Assists - MM:1 JR:20 LT:7

Thanks for your nice words about the podcast - we have a good time doing it. Thats what I have all the numbers from too!

[TedMac]

How anyone could have been at today's match and not appreciated MM dominance over Roby, I don't know.

MM was clearly under instructions from SW to play conservatively and concentrate on basic distribution. In defence, the basic tackling stats are misleading. How many times was he part of a two or three man cruncher? He was a vital weapon in the superb (71st minute?) set of sledgehammer tackles which ultimately won us the match.

As some other posters have said, if you want to beat Saints, MM is a crucial ingredient. If SW wants to give him a break for 20 mins, so be it. Roby is a great player but I wouldn't swap.