Tax Credits Changes / Reductions ?

[cpwigan]

WW, pensioners have been amongst those hit least hard by the Tories. They know that they have a lot of the grey vote. What they need to do is reintroduce the 50% tax rate for high earners and aggressively chase tax dodging millionaires and big businesses, but I can't see it happening.

If people read the post correctly what he is saying is thus far pensioners are gaining (not huge) whereas working poor are losing big time BUT his key point was TARGET THE RICHEST!

Indeed my biggest bug bear re pensioners is the universality of some benefits. For many pensioners; such benefits are VITAL but for the wealthy pensioners they do not need them, far from it. Pensioners as a collective group is wrong full stop. Some are poor, some are incredibly rich.

[josie andrews]

I wasn't commenting on the wealthy pensioners, which as you rightly said, shouldn't be given state pension or any other benefits if they are not in need of them.

I was relating to the ordinary working class.

Look how many wealthy people are claiming child benefits! Or winter fuel allowance! There would be a lot more in the 'kitty' if they stopped paying these benefits to the wealthy IMO.

[southernpie]

I wasn't commenting on the wealthy pensioners, which as you rightly said, shouldn't be given state pension or any other benefits if they are not in need of them.

I was relating to the ordinary working class.

Look how many wealthy people are claiming child benefits! Or winter fuel allowance! There would be a lot more in the 'kitty' if they stopped paying these benefits to the wealthy IMO.

Whilst I totally agree with your point, where do you draw the cut-off point? I just do not trust any of our governments over the years, especially once the bureaucrats get involved. Look at the mess that was/is caused by "means testing". The process was so involved and intrusive that it cost more to run than it saved, the people who needed each benefit most, actually lost out.

I just wish somebody could come up with the correct figure for the minimum living wage then make the payable minimum wage slightly higher. Do away with all the different benefits and pay one benefit that is above the minimum living wage, but below the minimum payable wage for anyone not in work and that is it. Anyone on part time work gets their weekly income made up to the minimum payable wage and anyone needing medical/disability help ie a wheelchair or oxygen is given what they need without having to pay for it.

The figure should be under constant review in line with inflation etc. so it never loses "real" value.

The state pension should equal the minimum payable wage, but IMO the pension is not a benefit it is a right paid for during the working life.

[thegimble]

The reduction in tax credits would be very fair if the Tories put the Living Wage in as well. That would address the issue. Problem is they say they aspire to a national living wage but will not put it in legislation.

Given the U Turns and lies over the last few years you know that this one on living wage is the biggest of them all.

[cpwigan]

The reduction in tax credits would be very fair if the Tories put the Living Wage in as well. That would address the issue. Problem is they say they aspire to a national living wage but will not put it in legislation.

Given the U Turns and lies over the last few years you know that this one on living wage is the biggest of them all.

Very much. Even the minimum wage is ignored by many, incl very successful businesses.

[Wiganer Ted]

Never ever understood the need for austerity at all.

The Gov't had to cut back their spending and/or increase revenue to balance the deficit and start reducing the countries debt.

They could have withdrawn welfare for Non EU migrants for a period of 5 years.
That would save them £8bn a year.

Introduction of the "Living Wage" at the level of the Low Pay Unit would put the amount now at £8.40 per hour.
If they had done that it would have been a massive revenue turn around in that millions would have been earning too much to qualify for tax credits, they would also have taken in further income tax and NI contributions.
Revenue Turnaround £13bn.

One of the biggest Gov't hand outs is Pension Tax Relief.
Get rid of the Higher Rate tax relief and reduce the ordinary rate to half of the basic rate - to 10%.
That could save the Gov't up to £25bn.

So just those three measures would save £46bn.

Saw my MP a couple of weeks ago and told her of the above and asked why in the election Ed Balls hadn't gone for those measures rather than go for austerity and hit the poor. Needless to say she didn't have an answer.

George Osbourne or Ed Balls, what an absolutely dreadful choice!

[Mike]

I wasn't commenting on the wealthy pensioners, which as you rightly said, shouldn't be given state pension or any other benefits if they are not in need of them.

I was relating to the ordinary working class.

Look how many wealthy people are claiming child benefits! Or winter fuel allowance! There would be a lot more in the 'kitty' if they stopped paying these benefits to the wealthy IMO.

Whilst I totally agree with your point, where do you draw the cut-off point? I just do not trust any of our governments over the years, especially once the bureaucrats get involved. Look at the mess that was/is caused by "means testing". The process was so involved and intrusive that it cost more to run than it saved, the people who needed each benefit most, actually lost out.

I just wish somebody could come up with the correct figure for the minimum living wage then make the payable minimum wage slightly higher. Do away with all the different benefits and pay one benefit that is above the minimum living wage, but below the minimum payable wage for anyone not in work and that is it. Anyone on part time work gets their weekly income made up to the minimum payable wage and anyone needing medical/disability help ie a wheelchair or oxygen is given what they need without having to pay for it.

The figure should be under constant review in line with inflation etc. so it never loses "real" value.

The state pension should equal the minimum payable wage, but IMO the pension is not a benefit it is a right paid for during the working life.

I believe this is something like a guarenteed minimum income. Its something that some Scandinavian countries are considering. Sounds great until people paying axes moan about scroungers on the guareneteed income and we are back to square one.

[Kittwazzer]

WW, pensioners have been amongst those hit least hard by the Tories. They know that they have a lot of the grey vote. What they need to do is reintroduce the 50% tax rate for high earners and aggressively chase tax dodging millionaires and big businesses, but I can't see it happening.

Nail on head. The problem is not the amount paid out to the neediest, it is the amount not paid IN by the greediest!

[southernpie]

I wasn't commenting on the wealthy pensioners, which as you rightly said, shouldn't be given state pension or any other benefits if they are not in need of them.

I was relating to the ordinary working class.

Look how many wealthy people are claiming child benefits! Or winter fuel allowance! There would be a lot more in the 'kitty' if they stopped paying these benefits to the wealthy IMO.

Whilst I totally agree with your point, where do you draw the cut-off point? I just do not trust any of our governments over the years, especially once the bureaucrats get involved. Look at the mess that was/is caused by "means testing". The process was so involved and intrusive that it cost more to run than it saved, the people who needed each benefit most, actually lost out.

I just wish somebody could come up with the correct figure for the minimum living wage then make the payable minimum wage slightly higher. Do away with all the different benefits and pay one benefit that is above the minimum living wage, but below the minimum payable wage for anyone not in work and that is it. Anyone on part time work gets their weekly income made up to the minimum payable wage and anyone needing medical/disability help ie a wheelchair or oxygen is given what they need without having to pay for it.

The figure should be under constant review in line with inflation etc. so it never loses "real" value.

The state pension should equal the minimum payable wage, but IMO the pension is not a benefit it is a right paid for during the working life.

I believe this is something like a guarenteed minimum income. Its something that some Scandinavian countries are considering. Sounds great until people paying axes moan about scroungers on the guareneteed income and we are back to square one.

As long as no-one who is not working can earn more than someone who is working,and taxation may need to be adjusted here, I can not see a problem. But the main thing I would like to see, is to ensure everyone has a livable income, without the complicated system now in place that means we have people struggling to survive against people who can work the system so it is more beneficial than working.

[Owd Codger]

The reduction in tax credits would be very fair if the Tories put the Living Wage in as well. That would address the issue. Problem is they say they aspire to a national living wage but will not put it in legislation.

Given the U Turns and lies over the last few years you know that this one on living wage is the biggest of them all.

Very much. Even the minimum wage is ignored by many, incl very successful businesses.

The minimum wage was introduced by Labour because at the time it was estimated that their were around 200,000 people, many in sweat shops and farmers fields only getting around £2/£3 per hour. Today, it is estimated that the figure is now around 250,000 and still earning below the minimum wage.

At the time the minimum wage was introduced the Low Pay Unit said that it would not solve the problem of low pay by bad employers and it would also reduce the pay levels of those in higher paid employment as employers would give less inflation proof pay rises and in the case of the public sector pay freezes while at the same time near double the amount of pension contributions that employees pay.

They have been proved right in their predictions.