EU ?

[Owd Codger]

For years the majority of the press have been anti EU, partly to do with the EUs desire to stop individuals such as Murdoch having too much control of the media. This has created a brain washing effect on the majority of the public.

Exit from the EU would destroy what remains of manufacturing industry in this country. Workers rights would disappear under the Tories who allready have imposed the most Draconian anti-union laws in Europe on this country. Your human rights would be under threat, not just those you consider undesirables. National security would be under threat due to us being outside EU police/security arrangements. Science would be under threat due to us not being involved in Big Science such as the LHC. Although we bemoan fisheries policy and the CAP you cannot deny it has prevented food shortages and in fact resulted in a surplus. Under the EU western Europe has also been free from was for one of the longest period in its history. Our borders would still not be secure without preventing all incoming flights, boats and trains and we would still have the open border between Northern Ireland and the South.

The "out" campaign constantly goes on about how much we pay into the EU but never says that we get approximately 2/3rds of it back. Of this money that has come back to this country much of it has been invested in the poorer areas of the North that had their industry destroyed under Maggie. The EU has done more for the North of England than any Tory government ever has.

I suspect that Osborne's Northern Powerhouse plans will rely on a fair chunk of EU money as the government doesn't appear to be investing much!

A very informed opinion Doc, with which I totally agree.
(Well I would, would'nt I, living in Germany!)

Seiously, I reckon 40% of Brits just hate Europe; 40% love Europe and the other 20% will probably vote to stay in. Better the Devil you know etc. just like the Scots. Fear of the unknown.

The major manufacturing base owned by we British has already been destroyed and workers had far more rights before we joined the EU. As for national security, we could still be protected by NATO of which the USA are also members and who have bases in our country. As for human rights, something needs to be done in regard to that as many of those getting the most benefit from it here are the criminal element. As for getting two thirds back on what we pay into the EU, how can that be when the richer countries of the EU like the UK, France, Germany and Italy are bringing the poorer countries of the former Eastern Bloc up to the standard of us in what was the Western Bloc.

[ian b]

Whelley Warrior, you should stand for office !!!! I agree totally and NO you are not being racist, just saying what many are thinking. I have a six year old daughter and I really fear for her in the coming years. I have friends in Norway who have offered to help me move out there and it is tempting

[Mike]

Whelley Warrior, you should stand for office !!!! I agree totally and NO you are not being racist, just saying what many are thinking. I have a six year old daughter and I really fear for her in the coming years. I have friends in Norway who have offered to help me move out there and it is tempting

But then you'd be an immigrant. Even worse, one that's moving for a better life not because of persecution or war. Thats the worst type of immigrant you know. You'd be bringing your foreign ways to Norway and diluting their indigenous culture and overcrowding their roads. You probably wouldn't even know how to speak the language at first! Sounds pretty wrong to me.

[Caboosegg]

For years the majority of the press have been anti EU, partly to do with the EUs desire to stop individuals such as Murdoch having too much control of the media. This has created a brain washing effect on the majority of the public.

Exit from the EU would destroy what remains of manufacturing industry in this country. Workers rights would disappear under the Tories who allready have imposed the most Draconian anti-union laws in Europe on this country. Your human rights would be under threat, not just those you consider undesirables. National security would be under threat due to us being outside EU police/security arrangements. Science would be under threat due to us not being involved in Big Science such as the LHC. Although we bemoan fisheries policy and the CAP you cannot deny it has prevented food shortages and in fact resulted in a surplus. Under the EU western Europe has also been free from was for one of the longest period in its history. Our borders would still not be secure without preventing all incoming flights, boats and trains and we would still have the open border between Northern Ireland and the South.

The "out" campaign constantly goes on about how much we pay into the EU but never says that we get approximately 2/3rds of it back. Of this money that has come back to this country much of it has been invested in the poorer areas of the North that had their industry destroyed under Maggie. The EU has done more for the North of England than any Tory government ever has.

I suspect that Osborne's Northern Powerhouse plans will rely on a fair chunk of EU money as the government doesn't appear to be investing much!

TTIP - is the EU working with the US and if successful with destroy alot of the benifits we have in the UK, including adverse effects on the NHS

just a but of info TTIP will include:

Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments.

The EU has admitted that TTIP will probably cause unemployment as jobs switch to the US, where labour standards and trade union rights are lower. It has even advised EU members to draw on European support funds to compensate for the expected unemployment.

removing alot of the food regulations meaning we go from having 1200 potentialy hazadous banned addatives to only about 12

aims of TTIP is to open up Europe’s public health, education and water services to US companies - i wonder what that sounds like.

TTIP will also mean job loss as alows easy outsourcing from EU to the US.

----------------------------

the Manufacturing industry has been destroyed by cheap trade from China. in fact as one of the main reason for a steel industry collapse is the increase in the cost of meeting the required regulation and process. the power to remove the regulations may help (although that is not something i would ever like to see happen as it would put workers at risk)

you stated it would destroy workers rights, but already stated that the Tories have started doing this by their recently passed anti-union laws, so it looks like they will do it either way.

there is nothing to back up any of the statements about not being involved in big Science, other NONE EU countries manage it, the US for example.

national security? how would have more control over who moves in and out of your borders be a bad thing. Australia seem to be fine?


Leaving the EU is just as Dangerous as staying in it currently. equally we will not be as well off as the OUT campaign Claims but we also will suffer Nowhere near as much as the IN campaign claims

i was until i read up on TTIP a In person as with how unstable the currently world economic environment is it is a very big Gamble.

However TTIP moved me into the Out side, how any trade agreement can give a company the right to sue the government if a rule or regulation effects their profit is beyond me.

think about it Volkswagon recently had to recall cars due to them not meeting the required emissions levels, under TTIP witch looks on course to become EU LAW, they could sue the Governments that pulls them for adversely effecting profits....

or food companies having the right to Sue governments if legislation bans ingredients in there food (Corn Syrup) as it would effect their profits using a more expensive replacement.

[i'm spartacus]

What the electorate will get is the same situation as in the seventies when we first enter the European Union or Common Market as it was known then under the Conservatives under Edward Heath.

One set of leaflets from the pro stay in europe campaign, a set of leaflets from the anti out of europe campaign and also a third set from Cmareron and the Conservative Government recomending that we stay in.

The result being like in the seventies, all those who have no interest in politics, cannot make decisions for themselves will take the line of, If the Goverment say its better to stay in, we had better vote to stay in.

The vote was rigged that way under Heath and it will the same again under Cameron.


We have always been a tradingt nation and any membership of a bureaucratic political gravy train like the European Union should not have any bearing on the economy or the running of our country like it does NOT with the United States and other European countries not in the EU who trade with all other countries without paying into a 'club' where we pay more than what we get in benefits out of it.

What is the point of people in this country moaning about the European Union telling us what to do and accusing it of running our affairs and then vote to remain in it?

WW, what's the United States then? A collection of states in a federation with local governments and a federal government elected at both federal and local level? Does that sound like the EU? Because it should do, it's almost exactly the same thing, just the states are a lot younger.

The major difference is that the USA is a single nation founded on a single idea and born on a common purpose.

The EU is a formation of long established nations, with differing legal systems, different traditions, many different languages, many of whom have spent a thousand years randomly indulging in sporadic violence against each other.


I was a real supporter of the original 'common market', but the problem for many is the ever closer union, and the democratic deficit existing in the EU as it is now

[ian b]

I've been offered a gym out there as I go from time to time teaching seminars. This being the case I would be paying in to society and not free loading which seems to be the case over here. I wouldn't be bringing my religious views which also seems to go on a lot over here and finally I fear for my daughter because every time you see the news there is some sex trafficking gang carting young girls off. So do you blame me ?

[Mike]

I've been offered a gym out there as I go from time to time teaching seminars. This being the case I would be paying in to society and not free loading which seems to be the case over here. I wouldn't be bringing my religious views which also seems to go on a lot over here and finally I fear for my daughter because every time you see the news there is some sex trafficking gang carting young girls off. So do you blame me ?

I imagine there will be plenty of Norwegians who will view you just like you view immigrants to the UK. And nothing you do to justify your presence will change their minds. In the same way as you are doing with all immigrants to the UK. You'll be an immigrant. An economic one at that, either undercutting local workers or pricing locals out of their areas. Either way, the irony will be fabulous.

[Owd Codger]

Mike, why is it that whenever the subject of immigration is mentioned, you make comments which appear to be in defence of it which gives me the impression that like the do gooder element in our society which includes some Church people, you see no problem with the present level of uncontrolled mass immigration into our country and the effect it is having on the economy, benefit system and the health service.

Yes, many of our own people are now migrating, especilly our skilled and professional people, but you can hardly blame them with what is happening in our country, can you?

[SJ]

Whelley Warrior, you should stand for office !!!! I agree totally and NO you are not being racist, just saying what many are thinking. I have a six year old daughter and I really fear for her in the coming years. I have friends in Norway who have offered to help me move out there and it is tempting

But then you'd be an immigrant. Even worse, one that's moving for a better life not because of persecution or war. Thats the worst type of immigrant you know. You'd be bringing your foreign ways to Norway and diluting their indigenous culture and overcrowding their roads. You probably wouldn't even know how to speak the language at first! Sounds pretty wrong to me.

Mike is simply being mischievous. Look at his final sentence and some of the inductive reasoning for it. Seems pretty ironic to me.

[OAMJSONA]

never wanted in , in the first place . It is a hoorah henry club for the high and mighty and dnt give a toss about the common man/woman

I will feather my nest if you feather yours

Countries will trade with us NO matter what