EU ?

[SJ]

Put in a nutshell CP

[Owd Codger]

I do not see this 'conflict' We certainly need migration but it has to be controlled. Migration should be based on economic need not 'club' membership.

Immigration should be limited to those who have a profession or a skill and are willing to contribute to our economy and in the case of Asylem Seekers, the genuine ones who are actually fleeing persercution, torture and death and not telling porkies as is the case with many of them.

Most immigrants who are coming here are only doing so in order to live on our benefit system and free health service while at the same time work in illegal jobs.

As though we have not got enough of our own doing it!

[thegimble]

Mike, why is it that whenever the subject of immigration is mentioned, you make comments which appear to be in defence of it which gives me the impression that like the do gooder element in our society which includes some Church people, you see no problem with the present level of uncontrolled mass immigration into our country and the effect it is having on the economy, benefit system and the health service.

Yes, many of our own people are now migrating, especilly our skilled and professional people, but you can hardly blame them with what is happening in our country, can you?

Though this may amaze - I often sound like i agree with immigration being OK, because I think that immigration is OK.

I find it hillarious when people with anti-immigration views think that British folk emigrating to other lands is different to foreigners immigrating here. After all - we're the ones that are the "good" people and they are the "bad" people! Its even funnier when people can't see how ironic that is.

We're all people IMO, doesn't matter where you were born. If you think you have the right to move to improve your circumstances (i.e. because you think where you live is over-run with immigrants), then I think everyone has that right.

I think I'll leave it there, because it does seem that this subject brings out my sarky side which doesn't show me in a good light!

The irony of immigration levels of today from outside the EU has been caused by us invading other countries or bombing them and totally destabalising them.

If we leave the EU that level will actually go up as the French will have no agreement to keep the borders out of France protected.

EU has got too big but I find it hilarious that facts for the stay in is regarded by some as scaremongering when facts said by the no is not.

Both sides will lie to us and the saddest thing is its not a real vote on if the EU has done any good for us or any bad but it will for do you like Europe or not.

Immigration is the hot issue for some but do remember the immigration from Syria, Libya etc was not done by the EU but the UK and friends.

Mass migration causes chaos and that is the UK's fault. Wether leaving the EU sorts the European immigration levels that could well happen but I would excpect a bigger rise in migrants from the middle east etc who will not be stopped in France as they are now under the EU agreement.

[thegimble]

I do not see this 'conflict' We certainly need migration but it has to be controlled. Migration should be based on economic need not 'club' membership.

We can only control mass migration from the EU what has happened with the middle east migrants is all our own fault. After all our borders are set to stop them from coming in.

[medlocke]

I do not see this 'conflict' We certainly need migration but it has to be controlled. Migration should be based on economic need not 'club' membership.

We can only control mass migration from the EU what has happened with the middle east migrants is all our own fault. After all our borders are set to stop them from coming in.

Yet the Commander of Nato says the UK will be safer outside of the EU, Internet forum guy or a four-star General :eusa16: , i know who which one i'll believe

[thegimble]

I do not see this 'conflict' We certainly need migration but it has to be controlled. Migration should be based on economic need not 'club' membership.

We can only control mass migration from the EU what has happened with the middle east migrants is all our own fault. After all our borders are set to stop them from coming in.

Yet the Commander of Nato says the UK will be safer outside of the EU, Internet forum guy o a four-star General :eusa16: , i know who which one i'll believe

You choose who to believe on the opinion you already made. Fact is we destabilised the middle east to the point were millions have to flee.

That's a fact can you post a link to his comments please. Or have you done a mistake as only commander that I can see who commented is Col. Richard Kemp who was the commander in Afghanistan. WE lost that part of the war.

As I say you choose who to believe to justify your point of view he is one person another 13 say the other way. That is 13 senior military personnel. A fact you do not say in your post but point to a internet forum guy.

I gather you heard or read his comment and like most left or right wing nutters/fanatics you fail to read all the article and make a choice but make a choice based on ideology and not intelligence. As you would have pointed out 13 say the opposite. And 1 other person who agreed with him.

I have not made a decision yet will evaluate all and make a decision rather than do what most do and make a decision based on 1 article that sits with their train of thought.

But for him to say that the borders system have caused an issue with the migrants is rather disingenuous when the we and partners went to Countries and devastated them and them put into the hands of maniacs.

The Commnader you refer I believe was the Commander of the first Task Force Helmand in Afghanistan in 2003. So he is not a general. Is this the same person or has someone else made a comment I have missed.

[Wiganer Ted]

Staying in without a doubt. I well remember how bad it was getting before we joined.
The Prime Minister McMillan coined the phrase "Never had it so good" in the late 1950's. By the early sixties the UK was described as "In a permenant state of economic decline" as our main trade with the commonwealth was disappearing by the month. Ships that left Liverpool with UK manufactures were down from 4 sailings a week to one.
That was awful.

Our current trading position is 44% with the EU, 40% with the USA and 16% Rest of the World. We have 44% of our trade with the EU due to the Free Trade area which the EU is. If we leave the EU we will leave the Free Trade Area and our exports to the EU will be subject to import tarifs and import duties, import quotas and anti dumping fines plus maybe outright EU protectionism.
Tarifs will probably be between 15% and 25% on our exports so a UK built car will compete against EU cars which are £20k and UK built will be between £23k & £25k.
At present we can export as much as demand allows, that would stop if we left and we would be told that our exports would be limited to a quota of xx Units.
Exports will be lost and the economic consequences are too dreadful to think about. The "Leave" campaigners say we will continue with free trade but this is absolutely wrong, we won't.
Christine Legard the head of the IMF said in an interview with Jon Snow on Ch 4 news that UK's free trade with the EU would continue until a "No" vote.
As for TTIP, wouldn't that require treaty change? If so the UK could veto it. I also remember TTIP's forerunner the "Kennedy Round" of negotiations which JFK started. That disappeared into nowhere as I suspect and hope TTIP will.

As for immigration. We have two types EU migration and non EU migration.
EU migrants pay £20.5 billion in tax and NI, we pay out to them £0.5 billion in benefits, a profit of £20bn.
Non EU migrants take out £8bn more than they pay in.
So what do the "Leave" people mean by "controlling our borders"? Borders are controlled for non EU migrants as they all require visas and/or work permits.
There were twice as many Non EU migrants arriving here in the past ten years as EU migrants. The Immigration problem isn't EU migration but non EU migration.

Thersa May has said if we leave the EU they will abolish the European Human Rights laws. Jacob Rees Mogg was informing all who would listen that they intend abolishing Employment Right's laws. These are fundamental rights which none of us can afford to give up.

I have questioned many in the "Leave" campaign and none of them know what they would do if we did leave. They dont know what tax we had prior to VAT or the rate applied, they don't know the formulas for Agricultural subsidies or what they would do with them. The benefit system leaves them cold as they have no idea.
The "Leave" campaigners want to leave the EU but are utterly clueless as to how they would run our trade or the country if we left. I have never heard one word or figure of fact from them as to how the UK would venture if we left.

The "Leave" campaign talk a lot but don't say anything of meaning or fact on why we should leave.
We have to remain as there is no compelling case whatsoever to leave

[jobo]

Staying in without a doubt. I well remember how bad it was getting before we joined.
The Prime Minister McMillan coined the phrase "Never had it so good" in the late 1950's. By the early sixties the UK was described as "In a permenant state of economic decline" as our main trade with the commonwealth was disappearing by the month. Ships that left Liverpool with UK manufactures were down from 4 sailings a week to one.
That was awful.

Our current trading position is 44% with the EU, 40% with the USA and 16% Rest of the World. We have 44% of our trade with the EU due to the Free Trade area which the EU is. If we leave the EU we will leave the Free Trade Area and our exports to the EU will be subject to import tarifs and import duties, import quotas and anti dumping fines plus maybe outright EU protectionism.
Tarifs will probably be between 15% and 25% on our exports so a UK built car will compete against EU cars which are £20k and UK built will be between £23k & £25k.
At present we can export as much as demand allows, that would stop if we left and we would be told that our exports would be limited to a quota of xx Units.
Exports will be lost and the economic consequences are too dreadful to think about. The "Leave" campaigners say we will continue with free trade but this is absolutely wrong, we won't.
Christine Legard the head of the IMF said in an interview with Jon Snow on Ch 4 news that UK's free trade with the EU would continue until a "No" vote.
As for TTIP, wouldn't that require treaty change? If so the UK could veto it. I also remember TTIP's forerunner the "Kennedy Round" of negotiations which JFK started. That disappeared into nowhere as I suspect and hope TTIP will.

As for immigration. We have two types EU migration and non EU migration.
EU migrants pay £20.5 billion in tax and NI, we pay out to them £0.5 billion in benefits, a profit of £20bn.
Non EU migrants take out £8bn more than they pay in.
So what do the "Leave" people mean by "controlling our borders"? Borders are controlled for non EU migrants as they all require visas and/or work permits.
There were twice as many Non EU migrants arriving here in the past ten years as EU migrants. The Immigration problem isn't EU migration but non EU migration.

Thersa May has said if we leave the EU they will abolish the European Human Rights laws. Jacob Rees Mogg was informing all who would listen that they intend abolishing Employment Right's laws. These are fundamental rights which none of us can afford to give up.

I have questioned many in the "Leave" campaign and none of them know what they would do if we did leave. They dont know what tax we had prior to VAT or the rate applied, they don't know the formulas for Agricultural subsidies or what they would do with them. The benefit system leaves them cold as they have no idea.
The "Leave" campaigners want to leave the EU but are utterly clueless as to how they would run our trade or the country if we left. I have never heard one word or figure of fact from them as to how the UK would venture if we left.

The "Leave" campaign talk a lot but don't say anything of meaning or fact on why we should leave.
We have to remain as there is no compelling case whatsoever to leave

Very succinctly put Ted. These damnable facts and figures do have a habit of putting things into a true perspective.

[Owd Codger]

The brain washing has begun!

[josie andrews]

Staying in without a doubt. I well remember how bad it was getting before we joined.
The Prime Minister McMillan coined the phrase "Never had it so good" in the late 1950's. By the early sixties the UK was described as "In a permenant state of economic decline" as our main trade with the commonwealth was disappearing by the month. Ships that left Liverpool with UK manufactures were down from 4 sailings a week to one.
That was awful.

Our current trading position is 44% with the EU, 40% with the USA and 16% Rest of the World. We have 44% of our trade with the EU due to the Free Trade area which the EU is. If we leave the EU we will leave the Free Trade Area and our exports to the EU will be subject to import tarifs and import duties, import quotas and anti dumping fines plus maybe outright EU protectionism.
Tarifs will probably be between 15% and 25% on our exports so a UK built car will compete against EU cars which are £20k and UK built will be between £23k & £25k.
At present we can export as much as demand allows, that would stop if we left and we would be told that our exports would be limited to a quota of xx Units.
Exports will be lost and the economic consequences are too dreadful to think about. The "Leave" campaigners say we will continue with free trade but this is absolutely wrong, we won't.
Christine Legard the head of the IMF said in an interview with Jon Snow on Ch 4 news that UK's free trade with the EU would continue until a "No" vote.
As for TTIP, wouldn't that require treaty change? If so the UK could veto it. I also remember TTIP's forerunner the "Kennedy Round" of negotiations which JFK started. That disappeared into nowhere as I suspect and hope TTIP will.

As for immigration. We have two types EU migration and non EU migration.
EU migrants pay £20.5 billion in tax and NI, we pay out to them £0.5 billion in benefits, a profit of £20bn.
Non EU migrants take out £8bn more than they pay in.
So what do the "Leave" people mean by "controlling our borders"? Borders are controlled for non EU migrants as they all require visas and/or work permits.
There were twice as many Non EU migrants arriving here in the past ten years as EU migrants. The Immigration problem isn't EU migration but non EU migration.

Thersa May has said if we leave the EU they will abolish the European Human Rights laws. Jacob Rees Mogg was informing all who would listen that they intend abolishing Employment Right's laws. These are fundamental rights which none of us can afford to give up.

I have questioned many in the "Leave" campaign and none of them know what they would do if we did leave. They dont know what tax we had prior to VAT or the rate applied, they don't know the formulas for Agricultural subsidies or what they would do with them. The benefit system leaves them cold as they have no idea.
The "Leave" campaigners want to leave the EU but are utterly clueless as to how they would run our trade or the country if we left. I have never heard one word or figure of fact from them as to how the UK would venture if we left.

The "Leave" campaign talk a lot but don't say anything of meaning or fact on why we should leave.
We have to remain as there is no compelling case whatsoever to leave

Very succinctly put Ted. These damnable facts and figures do have a habit of putting things into a true perspective.

Yes, very well put Ted