Charnley & Sarginson to leave

[thegimble]

We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.

If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.

Agree Odd that plenty bagged both Josh and Sarge but now the club is at fault. I can never remember Dave O screaming blue murder when Josh was dropped for Budgie or Manfredi. Within 24 hours Josh has become Martin Offiah, Eric Grothe, Jason Robinson etc etc.

Tbh CP Manfredi this season is on par with any Wigan winger I have seen in SL. Josh was 3rd choice last season for a reason and if Budgie stayed he Josh would not start.

[ian.birchall]

We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.

If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.

Agree Odd that plenty bagged both Josh and Sarge but now the club is at fault. I can never remember Dave O screaming blue murder when Josh was dropped for Budgie or Manfredi. Within 24 hours Josh has become Martin Offiah, Eric Grothe, Jason Robinson etc etc.

You are missing the bl**ding obvious CPW. We are losing one of our two starting wingers a season after we lost one of our other starting wingers. Whether or not he isn't the next Martin Offiah or Jason Robinson is irrelevant. He is one of our two top wingers at the moment.

[thegimble]

We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.

If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.

Agree Odd that plenty bagged both Josh and Sarge but now the club is at fault. I can never remember Dave O screaming blue murder when Josh was dropped for Budgie or Manfredi. Within 24 hours Josh has become Martin Offiah, Eric Grothe, Jason Robinson etc etc.

You are missing the bl**ding obvious CPW. We are losing one of our two starting wingers a season after we lost one of our other starting wingers. Whether or not he isn't the next Martin Offiah or Jason Robinson is irrelevant. He is one of our two top wingers at the moment.

Which brings us to are our wingers better this season than last. For me we have taken a step back with Budgie going I really hope we use all that money saved and get him back. Which for me makes us better.

[lucky 13]

You must be watching a different game to me Dave. Last season and this Josh has been far behind Manfredi and likewise last season with Budgie.

Defensively particularly dealing with kicks Josh is way behind. Oddly given your belief Dave, teams target Josh not Budgie, not Manfredi BUT Josh!

To suggest Josh is "way behind" is quite ridiculous. Defensively he is rarely out of position, Manfredi is as he is still learning.

And is case you missed it, Widnes ran at Manfredi (with results) all night and attacked that side of the pitch constantly. If targeting a player shows a sign of weakness how did you miss that? They didn't go anywhere near Josh. So that is your "Josh is weak because he'd targeted" theory debunked. Widnes must have thought Manfredi was terrible!

In the season's where Josh played a similar about of games to his opposite winger (i.e. not when he was injured) he scored more tries than them.

Some people have a very strange view of players. My adage is class is permanent and form is temporary. So despite a poor season when injured and despite poor treatment by Wane I would not expect a player to lose the skills and class previously shown at age 24 and just write them off. My ire is reserved for players who have never shown much in the first place such as Sarge.

I would imagine your partly correct Manfriedi side of the field do take most attack with ball in hand. I would though expect that's more to do with Smith defending inside him than any positioning or weakness in the tackle? I would also say passing wise it's Brown's favoured side so with ball in hand Widnes find it easy to go that way Thompson is then used with the cross field kick. In the Saints game Manfriedi D was spot on and also in the KR game, he came in and took man and ball on more than one occasion. I would agree Charnley is normally sound with D his form last season was poor with injury and to be honest he seemed to almost lack interest.
I also don't think we should underestimate the effect Sam T had atack wise down that right edge when Charnley and Goulding benfitted.The thought of him coming back with Joel, Gels and Dom is very promising to say the least.

[cpwigan]

I understand losing players like mellor etc who were down the pecking order and not getting game time. This however is about us losing our regular starters on a regular basis something that out of the top clubs is unique to us it seems

Not really; Bradford lost 3 in quick succession but they had fantastic talent. Saints lost Eastmond. Wigan have some fantastic talent too. Whatsmore that talent is at the age the NRL and Union want. Leeds, who would the NRL or Union want? Hall is a none starter, Watkins? Beyond those two I think they are safe. Looks like they have a convenient deal with Leeds RU. Saints? Greenwood maybe Wire? Lineham maybe Ratchford maybe Hill maybe Currie deffo So maybe other clubs have less players to be interested in. Wire might have more coming through in the next year or two. we have competed heavily for juniors at time. Wire were desperate for George Williams, we beat them. Rocky Hampshire plenty wanted, we beat all those.

If you want to lose nobody let the players age, reach 30 etc, even sign one of such an age.

[cpwigan]

You must be watching a different game to me Dave. Last season and this Josh has been far behind Manfredi and likewise last season with Budgie.

Defensively particularly dealing with kicks Josh is way behind. Oddly given your belief Dave, teams target Josh not Budgie, not Manfredi BUT Josh!

To suggest Josh is "way behind" is quite ridiculous. Defensively he is rarely out of position, Manfredi is as he is still learning.

And is case you missed it, Widnes ran at Manfredi (with results) all night and attacked that side of the pitch constantly. If targeting a player shows a sign of weakness how did you miss that? They didn't go anywhere near Josh. So that is your "Josh is weak because he'd targeted" theory debunked. Widnes must have thought Manfredi was terrible!

In the season's where Josh played a similar about of games to his opposite winger (i.e. not when he was injured) he scored more tries than them.

Some people have a very strange view of players. My adage is class is permanent and form is temporary. So despite a poor season when injured and despite poor treatment by Wane I would not expect a player to lose the skills and class previously shown at age 24 and just write them off. My ire is reserved for players who have never shown much in the first place such as Sarge.

I would imagine your partly correct Manfriedi side of the field do take most attack with ball in hand. I would though expect that's more to do with Smith defending inside him than any positioning or weakness in the tackle? I would also say passing wise it's Brown's favoured side so with ball in hand Widnes find it easy to go that way Thompson is then used with the cross field kick. In the Saints game Manfriedi D was spot on and also in the KR game, he came in and took man and ball on more than one occasion. I would agree Charnley is normally sound with D his form last season was poor with injury and to be honest he seemed to almost lack interest.
I also don't think we should underestimate the effect Sam T had atack wise down that right edge when Charnley and Goulding benfitted.The thought of him coming back with Joel, Gels and Dom is very promising to say the least.

Very much and most teams / players prefer passing / running right to left.

[cpwigan]

We lost a better winger in Joe Burgess after the first 3-4 bad games than Josh is now. Hopefully we will tempt Burgess back with the money and tie Manfredi and him to a long contract and keep them to it.

If not Carney is the only winger I would go for from SL apart from Ryan Hall but he ain't moving. Carney been decent over the last 3 years whilst most others have a decent few games a year and go awol after.

Agree Odd that plenty bagged both Josh and Sarge but now the club is at fault. I can never remember Dave O screaming blue murder when Josh was dropped for Budgie or Manfredi. Within 24 hours Josh has become Martin Offiah, Eric Grothe, Jason Robinson etc etc.

You are missing the bl**ding obvious CPW. We are losing one of our two starting wingers a season after we lost one of our other starting wingers. Whether or not he isn't the next Martin Offiah or Jason Robinson is irrelevant. He is one of our two top wingers at the moment.

Josh is here until the end of the season. we sign Carney or re-sign Budgie and not one person incl Dave will be crying.

We lost Sam at FB then we lost Bowen but we have recovered or should do once Sam is fit.

[Wiganer Ted]

I'm sorry we are losing Josh and Dan. They are both very good players and Sarge especially I don't think we've got anywhere near the best out of him that he has to offer.

Players do leave and always will.
It is also suprising how many of our match 17 have signed long term deals, most of them.

In the club's statement they talk about being excited about new signings as they were about Flower, Clubb and Bateman. There were pages upon pages on the loss of HH to Salford then we signed Bateman as his replacement. I and everyone else knows who was the better player then and who is the better player now, Bateman. HH had been tempted away and the club had to deal with it. IMO they dealt with it superbly well in beating other clubs to Bateman's signature.

The two lads are leaving and it's disappointing. I also feel that there will be some good signings made and by next November we can't wait for the new season to see how good they are when playing for Wigan.

[FROM A TO B]

joked on Monday that Josh was taking the kicks in preparation for kick and clap!
Think we may see an awesome season this year as he seemed so relaxed at the game was working the crowd.
No doubt we'll see him back here a few years older and few pounds heavier!
Can't blame the lad as presume they have made a very lucrative offer.
Sarge, a likeable player but not a devastating loss

[cpwigan]

Diamond Sale Main Man

"He'll fit in well. If he doesn't make it after a year or two, then he could always go back and be a top-class rugby league player."