Stuwigan wrote:Great to see so many opinions on here about the Wigan Standard player also many agree with the main core of the team.
It's a hard question to answer as what one person thinks is world class or Wigan Standard others don't.I would also say there are not many other teams in SL with so much potential of young players In the first team and lower teams still to come through who could make a world class player / Wigan Standard.
The future looks good
I agree Stu. I prefer not to think in terms of "world class", "Wigan standard " mainly for the reasons you refer to. The terms have a sense of objectivity which without adequate definitions can only be arbitrary. Better, for me at least to think "is he good enough to play for us/England? Here I can give a subjective answer"yes" (for us""not yet internationally "
Re Kevin Iro. When he first came to us we used to call him "Teflon"fingers " so no I wouldn't describe him as the finished article. Also to compare either Gells or Iro favourably with Gene Miles would be some accolade indeed
TrueBlueWarrior wrote:
I am very much pro Gelling but totally agree he is not World Class yet, however just a couple of things from your post I want to discuss further.
I agree he has been inconsistent, erratic and error prone in the past but recently I genuinely think he has been more consistent and less erratic.
Lockers has been World class for a good few years now and never been in the NRL, but again Gelling is not world class yet!
Some players, Lockers being one, simply don't want to go to Oz and I can understand that. Not everyone wants to travel.
So I don't think Lockers not going to the NRL has anything to do with his ability but personal choice.
As Gelling comes from NZ I don't see that being an issue with him. It's much more to do with the fact no one is interested in signing him at the moment.
Mind you Sarginson has got a gig so anything is possible I suppose!
Going back to Lockers again I never want class players to leave Wigan but given how well he plays in the internationals for England when surrounded by better players I think he would have been a mega star in the NRL had he gone.
Tuigamala wrote:
No fishing Dave I despise fishing it's far too boring a hobby for me. Anyway my opinion is he's world class, he can turn nothing into something, he's an absolute nightmare to bring down without him offloading and is starting to develop into the investment Wigan were led to believe he was and I might add by the one and only Kevin Iro.
I think you will need to get to like him because he's going to be around for a long time at Wigan.
In which case you are abusing the term world class. He is not even close. He is too slow for one thing, never mind the erratic play. If he is world class then Gildart must be the worlds best centre given he is IMO already better than Gelling. He's 25 and still talked about as a developing player. He should be there by now if he was world class.
As to him being here a long time. If he is world class he won't be. He will end up in the NRL sooner rather than later.
I think Gelling's Wigan career is tied to that of Wane's. He is clearly one of the favoured few. If Wane goes, once Gelling's contract expires I would not bank on it being renewed. A different coach will be far more objective.
Wigan standard has to be good enough to play and win a Grand Final with Wigan., so 17 needed by the club as a minimum. Do we have that now? I think not,due mainly to some players probably being overpaid,and so some under paid. World class is now uncommon ,with SCAP , and some like OL fading from that status with age. We wait on both TOMKINS IMO ,and I for one am optimistic.
Tuigamala wrote:
No fishing Dave I despise fishing it's far too boring a hobby for me. Anyway my opinion is he's world class, he can turn nothing into something, he's an absolute nightmare to bring down without him offloading and is starting to develop into the investment Wigan were led to believe he was and I might add by the one and only Kevin Iro.
I think you will need to get to like him because he's going to be around for a long time at Wigan.
In which case you are abusing the term world class. He is not even close. He is too slow for one thing, never mind the erratic play. If he is world class then Gildart must be the worlds best centre given he is IMO already better than Gelling. He's 25 and still talked about as a developing player. He should be there by now if he was world class.
As to him being here a long time. If he is world class he won't be. He will end up in the NRL sooner rather than later.
I think Gelling's Wigan career is tied to that of Wane's. He is clearly one of the favoured few. If Wane goes, once Gelling's contract expires I would not bank on it being renewed. A different coach will be far more objective.
Well if your getting technical then the term world class simply means International Standard and the last time I checked he played for his national team. Secondly Dave you cant possibly attend all the games by referring to him as slow and id like to see you catch him. He made 3 80-90 metre breaks last weekend. Nothing against Gildart but your in dreamland if you think he's better than Gells. Gildarts solid but isn't in the same league as Gelling for offloads, tackle busts and try assists. Ok maybe im jumping the gun a bit with world class as you see the meaning but he's by far our best centre at the club and one of the best in Super League.
"If there is no blood on the line, it is not rugby league"
(Russell Crowe)
First, Tuigamala fishing is a SPORT and far from boring, the opposite for anybody half decent.
Wigan standard = they played for Wigan therefore they are Wigan standard. Some greats supposedly were very average ability yet great Wigan players and visa vaersa.
World class is a HUGE CALL for any player. Probably the only one you will get 100% agreement on is Lockers and maybe Sam.
Tuigamala wrote:
Gelling (world class and a legendary local hero type character too, Im glad he's at Wigan!)
Were you fishing for a bite in saying Gelling is world class, because if so, you got one!?
There are plenty of people on here who think Gelling is a better player than I do but I'd hazard a guess none of them think he is remotely close to world class.
In fact I bet there is only you on the entire planet that thinks he is world class and I include Wane and his Mum & Dad in that!
He is far too inconsistent, error prone and erratic to be called world class.
We only have two world class players in our side in my opinion, Lockers and Sam T (assuming he regains his past form). Bateman also, perhaps.
As to his antics and character, they let him get aways with far too many errors in my opinion. I don't blame him for milking it, which I reckon he does but give me a straight laced "boring" truly world class player like Hanley any day. He didn't need to ride around on a BMX bike to gain the fans adulation.
If he was world class he'd be in the NRL already.
I have said on many occasions and stick by it Gelling Will be world class centre and will play in NRL. He has the raw talent I have seen in few players of recent times and reminds me of Kevin Iro. Only time will tell .
Not all players in the NRL are world class but there are dozens of centres that are better. Give me Kevin Iro any day of the week he would have a field day in his league. After saying that I hope you are right but I fear not. Mind you if he had a half back who could supply good and quick ball he may have a better chance.
Winning is down to 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration - Shaun Edwards
Tuigamala wrote:
No fishing Dave I despise fishing it's far too boring a hobby for me. Anyway my opinion is he's world class, he can turn nothing into something, he's an absolute nightmare to bring down without him offloading and is starting to develop into the investment Wigan were led to believe he was and I might add by the one and only Kevin Iro.
I think you will need to get to like him because he's going to be around for a long time at Wigan.
In which case you are abusing the term world class. He is not even close. He is too slow for one thing, never mind the erratic play. If he is world class then Gildart must be the worlds best centre given he is IMO already better than Gelling. He's 25 and still talked about as a developing player. He should be there by now if he was world class.
As to him being here a long time. If he is world class he won't be. He will end up in the NRL sooner rather than later.
I think Gelling's Wigan career is tied to that of Wane's. He is clearly one of the favoured few. If Wane goes, once Gelling's contract expires I would not bank on it being renewed. A different coach will be far more objective.
I can't accept the propositional content of your final "judgemental" opinion (subjective)
A different coach will have to make a decision grounded in his experience and has such any "judgement he makes can't be (logically) other than subjective.
Examples " Finney was a better footballer than Mathews. (Subjective)
Finney played for Preston N E. Mathews played for Blackpool (objective)
cpwigan wrote:First, Tuigamala fishing is a SPORT and far from boring, the opposite for anybody half decent.
Wigan standard = they played for Wigan therefore they are Wigan standard. Some greats supposedly were very average ability yet great Wigan players and visa vaersa.
World class is a HUGE CALL for any player. Probably the only one you will get 100% agreement on is Lockers and maybe Sam.
Well Well CP ironically it looks like you took the bait good and proper there. I purposely described Fishing as a hobby. Darts is also classed as a sport need I say any more? :eusa18:
"If there is no blood on the line, it is not rugby league"
(Russell Crowe)
Tuigamala wrote:
No fishing Dave I despise fishing it's far too boring a hobby for me. Anyway my opinion is he's world class, he can turn nothing into something, he's an absolute nightmare to bring down without him offloading and is starting to develop into the investment Wigan were led to believe he was and I might add by the one and only Kevin Iro.
I think you will need to get to like him because he's going to be around for a long time at Wigan.
In which case you are abusing the term world class. He is not even close. He is too slow for one thing, never mind the erratic play. If he is world class then Gildart must be the worlds best centre given he is IMO already better than Gelling. He's 25 and still talked about as a developing player. He should be there by now if he was world class.
As to him being here a long time. If he is world class he won't be. He will end up in the NRL sooner rather than later.
I think Gelling's Wigan career is tied to that of Wane's. He is clearly one of the favoured few. If Wane goes, once Gelling's contract expires I would not bank on it being renewed. A different coach will be far more objective.
I can't accept the propositional content of your final "judgemental" opinion (subjective)
A different coach will have to make a decision grounded in his experience and has such any "judgement he makes can't be (logically) other than subjective.
Examples " Finney was a better footballer than Mathews. (Subjective)
Finney played for Preston N E. Mathews played for Blackpool (objective)
Bliming heck SJ thats gone right over my head far far to techinical for a old goat like me.
