EU ? Head to Head

[DaveO]

Don't know what happened to my quote!

My comment is beginning 3rd para after "Is that what you are wishing for?"

Looks like Josie fixed it for you!

Here is another little post brexit scenario for you.

One of the Brexit issues is Turkey joining the EU and the UK being over run with Turkish migrants.

OK, so we leave the EU.

With us out of the EU we have no veto on Turkey joining. So the rest of the EU decide that Turkey can join.

However in order to access the single market we have had to agree to free movement of labour.

Bingo! Britain overrun by Turkish migrants with us out of the EU unable to veto their entry.

The alternative is to remain in the EU and veto them joining.....

If we vote to come out, how can the people of Turkey access our country under the free movement of Labour and why do we need to stay in to veto their application when according to news information, other countries will carry out the veto and even if none do, how will they get in legally when they will need a visa to enter the country at passport control.

And if we vote to come out, surely many of those who already here from other European Union countries will either have to go back to their own countries as there would no longer 'free movement of labour' and they would need to have a visa to enter.

So now you are suggested forced repatriation of EU Citizens who have been here for years many no doubt married to Brits. You really are Enoch Powell reincarnated aren't you!

If that happened we'd not doubt have to welcome back the 2.2m brits living in the EU, many of them pensioners. Thought about the implications of that?

You also didn't read my post properly. I am suggesting there WILL be free movement of labour even if we leave the EU because that will be the price the UK must pay to have access to the single market.

The reason I believe this is free movement of labour is one of THE fundamental principles of the single market. Not of the EU itself but the single market. The EU will not compromise on this as it will wreck the whole basis of the single market.

Therefore if we leave the EU and then obviously have no say over who joins but have agreed to the single market rule of free movement of labour, then citizens of new EU countries will be able to come here. Including Turkey if they were to join.

This is exactly the situation Norway faces today.

Now you may say "We won't agree to that". Well how do you know? Because Boris Johnson says so? Has he or Leave asked the other EU member states? No he hasn't and no Leave has not either. Why not? EU exit is not a new idea yet here we are days away from a vote and the idiots running Leave can't tell you what will happen.

Given every nation that is outside the EU that does have access to the single market has had to agree to free movement of labour all the evidence is we will have to do the same.

It is not about what is theoretically possible but what is probable. It is not impossible for Boris Johnson to drop dead tomorrow, but it's not probable yet that is the kind of logic the Leave campaign want you to swallow. In their eyes anything is possible and we can have access to the single market without free movement of labour. That in my opinion is not probable.

The only guaranteed way to ensure we aren't overrun by Turkish migrants is to be a member of the EU and veto their membership.

Finally, why are you so personally keen for people from other European Union countries being here?

I am not "keen" I just don't see it as an issue because I think it is being exaggerated as to what a bad thing it is (in fact think it is a positive) and I also value the ability of British people to go the other way.

Being an EU citizen gives you the right to go and live and work anywhere in the EU. You and I may not want to do that but this provides a fantastic opportunity for my kids and other people if they wish to do so. If we leave the EU we throw this away. That is a massive, massive loss to the people of this country.

Are you for example, renting out properties to them like many others who say we should stay in?

Err, no but that is a another fantastic leap on your part to link renting property to staying in the EU.

By the way you do realise that if an EU migrant comes here and doesn't get a job after six months, they have to go home? Those are the rules now. Just thought I would throw that in because I get the impression you think people can just come here regardless and claim benefits forever.

[BriH]

Don't know what happened to my quote!

My comment is beginning 3rd para after "Is that what you are wishing for?"

Looks like Josie fixed it for you!

Here is another little post brexit scenario for you.

One of the Brexit issues is Turkey joining the EU and the UK being over run with Turkish migrants.

OK, so we leave the EU.

With us out of the EU we have no veto on Turkey joining. So the rest of the EU decide that Turkey can join.

However in order to access the single market we have had to agree to free movement of labour.

Bingo! Britain overrun by Turkish migrants with us out of the EU unable to veto their entry.

The alternative is to remain in the EU and veto them joining.....

Living here in Germany I have to say I don't think there's a hope in Hell of Turkey joining the EU. Angela Merkel is dead against it - seems to across the board.
The German Bundestag really inflamed relations with Turkey last week by endorsing the accusation that Turkey committed genocide in WW1 against the Albanians! That left Turkey's President fuming.
Weird really because there are approx. 7.5 million ethnic Turks living in Germany!
Post WW2 there was a chronic man power shortage because Germany had lost so many men - about 3.5 million I think. So in cam the Turks and they helped the economic revival.

[Aaron C. Rescue]

I'm still 50-50 on which way to vote, these debates are not helping at all.

[DaveO]

I'm still 50-50 on which way to vote, these debates are not helping at all.

If you mean the TV debates I'd agree with you. Both sides are as bad as each other as all they both do is make assertions and counter assertions.

Facts in these debates are in short supply.

[Peter252]

First post on the forum so thanks for having me.
I think both sides of the argument are loaded with claims and suppositions that will only be know after the event. My main concern, as a retired person with grandchildren is the impact on them should the leave campaign win, which is becoming increasingly possible. What if the trade deals with both the EU and the rest of the world do not materialize? What is the economic Plan B for post Brexit?
I am old enough to remember the dark days of the 60's and 70's to have less confidence in our abilities to forge a brave new world, than Grove and company.
The EU is far from perfect and does need reform but that is a project for the future generations of my children and grandchildren to grapple with. A leave vote will deny them that future and possibly leave them with a devastated future.
On the fear of Turkey coming into the EU,Austria will never agree to that happening.
I just wish the debate between the two campaign groups was as good as this on the forum.

[Aaron C. Rescue]

I'm still 50-50 on which way to vote, these debates are not helping at all.

If you mean the TV debates I'd agree with you. Both sides are as bad as each other as all they both do is make assertions and counter assertions.

Facts in these debates are in short supply.

Exactly, that's my point, at times they sounded like schoolyard arguments, I was expecting them to start calling each other names and sticking their tongues out at one point.

[josie andrews]

I'm still 50-50 on which way to vote, these debates are not helping at all.

If you mean the TV debates I'd agree with you. Both sides are as bad as each other as all they both do is make assertions and counter assertions.

Facts in these debates are in short supply.

Exactly, that's my point, at times they sounded like schoolyard arguments, I was expecting them to start calling each other names and sticking their tongues out at one point.

Isn't that what they do already in the House of Commons??

[josie andrews]

First post on the forum so thanks for having me.
I think both sides of the argument are loaded with claims and suppositions that will only be know after the event. My main concern, as a retired person with grandchildren is the impact on them should the leave campaign win, which is becoming increasingly possible. What if the trade deals with both the EU and the rest of the world do not materialize? What is the economic Plan B for post Brexit?
I am old enough to remember the dark days of the 60's and 70's to have less confidence in our abilities to forge a brave new world, than Grove and company.
The EU is far from perfect and does need reform but that is a project for the future generations of my children and grandchildren to grapple with. A leave vote will deny them that future and possibly leave them with a devastated future.
On the fear of Turkey coming into the EU,Austria will never agree to that happening.
I just wish the debate between the two campaign groups was as good as this on the forum.

Welcome to the madhouse

[Wandering Warrior]

Good post Peter.
There's no plan B for Brexit because the Brexiters who are making all the promises of what we can do are not in a position to implement them!
Why should the Boy George and CaMoron make plans for Brexit when they want to remain?
If Brexit occurs the first thing that will happen is Lanry Head Johnson will push to take over the Tory Party and uncertainty will occur. The worse thing that happens to any economy is uncertainty, meanwhile Boris, Gove and Farage push to improve their political standing and the plebs pay!
A week ago I didn't know which way to vote but thought and digging deeper than the tabloids has helped me arrive at my remain decision and "like a sheep" to quote a poster on here, I'll be happy not fix something that isn't completely broke, except to those who can afford it to be!

[medlocke]

Good post Peter.
There's no plan B for Brexit because the Brexiters who are making all the promises of what we can do are not in a position to implement them!
Why should the Boy George and CaMoron make plans for Brexit when they want to remain?
If Brexit occurs the first thing that will happen is Lanry Head Johnson will push to take over the Tory Party and uncertainty will occur. The worse thing that happens to any economy is uncertainty, meanwhile Boris, Gove and Farage push to improve their political standing and the plebs pay!
A week ago I didn't know which way to vote but thought and digging deeper than the tabloids has helped me arrive at my remain decision and "like a sheep" to quote a poster on here, I'll be happy not fix something that isn't completely broke, except to those who can afford it to be!

So you are happy living in a country currently under the EU's rule, a country where we have had 5 years of austerity cuts, more than 1,109,309 people using food banks on a weekly basis, rules stopping our own government from saving our own steel industry?, when we leave i'm sure France will welcome you with open arms as i can't see somebody like yourself staying with the plebs :thum: