Brexit UK vote to leave Europe in historic referendum

[nellywelly]

Teresa May is no ones fool she has put the main ones who shouted we will be better after Bexit in charge of doing the deals with the EU so if it goes tits up she blames them and washes her hands of it, you have to admire her if we get a good deal she can claim it was her skill in picking the right team if it goes wrong she can claim it was her ministers fault and sack them and restart negotiations with the EU using a fresh team either way she can not lose

[DaveO]

BoJo is now Foreign Secretary. I genuinely thought this was a joke when I saw it.

Apparently German news commentators have been literally laughing when reporting the news.

May herself said very recently the last time Boris negotiated with the Germans he came back with three slightly used water cannon.

Hence a comment from a Times journalist saying is it any wonder people view politics with cynicism when she goes and appoints him.

She has also appointed other leading Brexiters as ministers for international trade and for negotiating the exit from the EU. So now they can't hide and must deliver.

They won't be laughing when they have to deal with David Davis re Brexit...........

I like Davis if I don't like his right wing politics from an economic point of view. He opposes things like ID cards as do I so it will be interesting to see how long he last in government if May wants to go all NSA GCHQ bonkers as she might. He has resigned before on points of principle like that.

However as an EU negotiator what is he going to do to them? What cards does he hold? Like we do 44% of our trade with the EU and they do 8% of theirs with us? That sort or card? Hah!

The problem with him as a negotiator on the EU is he's not much different to Farage. He'd cut us off from the single market on a point of principle about free movement if it came down to it. My view is that would see us collapse economically not just now but for years to come. On this he doesn't care. He'd rather have a nation of paupers if it was sovereign.

[DaveO]

"You need to read up on what Spain has been saying ever since the vote. Are they expecting to get Gibraltar next week? No but they have been talking about joint administration in order to keep the border open once we leave.

You don't seem to realise at the moment Spain must keep the border open as we are in the EU bur once we leave it becomes a hard border which would stuff Gibraltar if they shut it and has them shit scared hence the island voting remain.

If you think the Spanish are going to back down over an issue of sovereignty because the Germans sell us some cars I think you are in for a shock. There is no incentive for the Spanish to play ball and no Spanish government is just going to let things carry on as normal given their own domestic polite and views of their people about the island.

As an aside there is a lot of store being placed on how important the UK export market is to Germany and how this will mean all obstacles to a good deal for the UK will vanish. Apart from the fact Germany exports a lot more to other countries including more than we do to the USA I have no idea why people think this is any great leverage anyway. Under WTO rules we won't be imposing tariffs and Germany has 26 other EU countries they have a more vested interest in than the UK"



1. What Island?

Gibraltar. It voted overwhelmingly Remain.

2. Nope I think they will back down if the Northern European countries cut off their giro each month. What is it? 45% youth unemployment in Spain atm? Outstanding success of the Euro.

The problems with the Euro are self inflicted but have little to do with our Brexit negotiations. Spain is in the EU. We voted to leave. The EU is not going to punish Spain. Any deal the UK gets has to be accepted by all EU nations. So lets say Spain digs in over Gibraltar, negotiations drag on and after 2 years after we invoke article 50 no deal is struck. What happens then? Well we leave anyway with no deal. WTO rules apply and as such we are well and truly stuffed!

3. I agree with some of what you say, but doesn't matter. As long as trade is mutually beneficial it would be a foolish leader who refuses it.

It's not that simple. Politics plays apart and the ambitions of other countries come into play. EU nations are already saying now the Brits have gone we can get on with it. If you think Paris and Frankfurt don't want to be the European centres for finance instead of London and don't see this as an opportunity to be so, sorry but you need to wake up.

[fozzieskem]

So even leaving immigration wont be controlled..or will it? no one seems to know in government

[Wandering Warrior]

In order to access free trade it would appear we have to have free movement of migrant workers.
Furthermore, we will have to employ migrant legal teams to assist with Brexit due to lack of skills and quantity in this country. How ironic, migrants employed to stop migrants!?
As an adage it has been mentioned that the border at Calais, the jungle, needs to be re negotiated, with no doubt it returning to Dover?
Brexigeddon on bbc2 this week was a great mick take on all the ramifications of 23/7.
I guess it will be hard for some to stomach, welcome to Little England!

[ian.birchall]

"You need to read up on what Spain has been saying ever since the vote. Are they expecting to get Gibraltar next week? No but they have been talking about joint administration in order to keep the border open once we leave.

You don't seem to realise at the moment Spain must keep the border open as we are in the EU bur once we leave it becomes a hard border which would stuff Gibraltar if they shut it and has them shit scared hence the island voting remain.

If you think the Spanish are going to back down over an issue of sovereignty because the Germans sell us some cars I think you are in for a shock. There is no incentive for the Spanish to play ball and no Spanish government is just going to let things carry on as normal given their own domestic polite and views of their people about the island.

As an aside there is a lot of store being placed on how important the UK export market is to Germany and how this will mean all obstacles to a good deal for the UK will vanish. Apart from the fact Germany exports a lot more to other countries including more than we do to the USA I have no idea why people think this is any great leverage anyway. Under WTO rules we won't be imposing tariffs and Germany has 26 other EU countries they have a more vested interest in than the UK"



1. What Island?

Gibraltar. It voted overwhelmingly Remain.

2. Nope I think they will back down if the Northern European countries cut off their giro each month. What is it? 45% youth unemployment in Spain atm? Outstanding success of the Euro.

The problems with the Euro are self inflicted but have little to do with our Brexit negotiations. Spain is in the EU. We voted to leave. The EU is not going to punish Spain. Any deal the UK gets has to be accepted by all EU nations. So lets say Spain digs in over Gibraltar, negotiations drag on and after 2 years after we invoke article 50 no deal is struck. What happens then? Well we leave anyway with no deal. WTO rules apply and as such we are well and truly stuffed!

3. I agree with some of what you say, but doesn't matter. As long as trade is mutually beneficial it would be a foolish leader who refuses it.

It's not that simple. Politics plays apart and the ambitions of other countries come into play. EU nations are already saying now the Brits have gone we can get on with it. If you think Paris and Frankfurt don't want to be the European centres for finance instead of London and don't see this as an opportunity to be so, sorry but you need to wake up.

If anyone needs to wake up it is you Dave. The vote was to leave. The country has made a choice and now has to work to take advantage if all the opportunities on offer.

[fozzieskem]

So the economic slowdown seems to be starting,wonderful I'm sure the food banks will be happy,still we got our country back (whatever that means)

[DaveO]

If anyone needs to wake up it is you Dave. The vote was to leave. The country has made a choice and now has to work to take advantage if all the opportunities on offer.

Spare me platitudes Ian. What on earth does "The country .... has to work to take advantage if all the opportunities on offer" mean?

Who is "the country"? What is "the country" going to do differently today than before the vote? What "opportunities" are on offer?

You me and everybody else on this board are just going to carry on doing what we did before the vote. We aren't going to "work to take advantage" of anything are we?

We have to hope we just have not shot ourselves in the economic foot. Or in fact blown it clean off.

Unemployment is predicted to rise from 5% to 7.1% as a result of Brexit. I can only hope the extra 2.1% turfed out of a job all voted to leave and they enjoy the new found opportunities that provides.

We have not even invoked article 50 yet and the economy has just experienced the biggest slowdown since the financial crisis so God knows what will happen when we do.

The reality is 44% of our exports go to the EU and the rest of the world isn't begging to step in and buy from us.

I don't know what you personally expected to happen from leaving but I doubt you will get it unless we deliberately put the country into recession long term by cutting ourselves off from the single market to reduce migration and regain sovereignty (which is joke of an idea anyway).

[Wintergreen]

DaveO

You do actually know where/what it is, don't you?

Since when is Gibralter an island?

Where do you get all this nonsense?

The reality is that no-one has a clue about what Brexit will do in the medium to long term.

Of course it has impacted the FTSE and the exchange rates, but that is more to do with the uncertainty rather than the future direction of the UK.

No-one has a clue about how/what our relationship with the EU will be, so how this (very specific!0 5% to 7.1% figure that you quoted can have any ounce of credibility is laughable.

I voted to remain btw, but some of the alarmist crap coming from people is as bad as the lies that the Leave camp were spinning before the referendum.

[DaveO]

Well here is possibly one of the first consequences of Brexit.

A friend's wife is a nurse (midwife) and she has told him all Spanish nurses in the UK have received letters from the Spanish equivalent of the Nursing Medical Council to tell them that once UK leaves the EU any work they do in UK will be ignored by the Spanish nursing authorities.

Not a very nice way to treat your own citizens and obviously the work these nurses do here won't be any less valid in itself than it was before.

The effect this will have is if they return to Spain having spent time here they will be viewed as less experienced, may be deemed to need more training as they have effectively been out of the profession for however long they were here and will command a lower salary.

Blackmail to get them to return home? Nursing council recognition for work done is not something any nurse would give up lightly.

It might not be Gibraltar but it hasn't taken the Spanish very long to try and take advantage of Brexit and has done nothing to shake my belief they will be playing hardball over any negotiations for Brexit.

Of course some people will think this is great. A few less migrants in the UK ignoring the fact if they weren't here the NHS simply would not have the replacements to hand.