What is happening to the Labour Party?

[morley pie eater]

And Corbyn wins challenge!
I'm reliably informed by a knowledgeable colleague that a poll carried out in the last couple of days would leave Corbyn losing forty seats to the Tories if there was an election in the near future. How sad!?

If the poll is correct (there's a first time for everything, I suppose), how would it be Corbyn losing 40 seats? I don't support him, (see above) but it's widely accepted that any divided party will be punished by the electorate. Who divided the Labour party? The insurgent MPs, whose cunning plan to resign en masse and force Corbyn to resign turned out to be from the Baldrick book of cunning plans.

[ "You see, Baldrick, there was a tiny flaw in ther plan." "What was that, Sir?" "It was b******s!" ]

[morley pie eater]

Cheers Morley. Is there any current Labour MP that you rgibk could lead the party and become electabe?

Possibly Andy Burnham, but he's right not to stand in the current climate. He has more experience than Owen Smith, is from Culcheth - a bit too near to Sentellins, but we won't hold that against him. (My cousin, who lives in Leigh, is a natural Tory supporter but likes Burnham and thinks he does a good job. This suggests he could appeal to centre ground.)

What it needs is some knocking-heads-together, sit down and have a proper analysis of where we're at as a country, realise that things have change since Blair-Brown-Mandleson, and come up with coherent radical policies. These could include (for me) cancelling Trident and save up to £50 billion; support communities blighted by effects of immigration, like Boston, with extra funds for schools, investment in housing, enforcement of minimum wage legislation etc. I'd also include some of Owen Smith's ideas like a 1% wealth tax to fund the NHS, scrap zer hours contracts, and so on.

[Wandering Warrior]

Good post above Morley. As you probably guessed, I'm very disillusioned at the Labour, which I might add, I have voted all my life and a past member.
I personally think it's dead in the water now and the biggest opposition will come from SNP with an independence agenda.
Dark times ahead!?!

[morley pie eater]

Good post above Morley. As you probably guessed, I'm very disillusioned at the Labour, which I might add, I have voted all my life and a past member.
I personally think it's dead in the water now and the biggest opposition will come from SNP with an independence agenda.
Dark times ahead!?!

A lot of us feel as disillusioned, but we live in a time of huge change. Social media is weakening the grip of the press barons - who'd have ever thought that a Bernie Saunders, a socialist, would do as well as he did in America? Momentum and the surge in Labour Party membership has tapped into the same vein.

I'm not saying that everything that emerges will be beneficial or even sensible, but change is possible more than it was 20, or even 10 years ago.

Going to the electorate as watered-down Tories is not going to cut it IMO.

[Wintergreen]

As a Tory I really hope that Labour vacate the middle ground

[morley pie eater]

As a Tory I really hope that Labour vacate the middle ground

I think a successful party will always be seen as in the middle ground, Wintergreen. What I'm saying is that part of every party's job is to argue a case based on it's principles. Attlee did that, inspiring servicemen and their families to "build Jerusalem" after the war. They were arguably the most radical, reforming government we've ever had . . . but many of their policies, such as the NHS (which Tories voted against) became "middle ground".

See ref to Roy Hattersley's comments on Blair and Heath in my post above. Today's centre ground is what people have come to accept - somebody once had to argue and convince. Slavery was centre ground until Wilberforce.

The real political fight is between today's centre ground and tomorrow's - and tomorrow's always wins in the end!

[nellywelly]

Cheers Morley. Is there any current Labour MP that you rgibk could lead the party and become electabe?

Possibly Andy Burnham, but he's right not to stand in the current climate. He has more experience than Owen Smith, is from Culcheth - a bit too near to Sentellins, but we won't hold that against him. (My cousin, who lives in Leigh, is a natural Tory supporter but likes Burnham and thinks he does a good job. This suggests he could appeal to centre ground.)

What it needs is some knocking-heads-together, sit down and have a proper analysis of where we're at as a country, realise that things have change since Blair-Brown-Mandleson, and come up with coherent radical policies. These could include (for me) cancelling Trident and save up to £50 billion; support communities blighted by effects of immigration, like Boston, with extra funds for schools, investment in housing, enforcement of minimum wage legislation etc. I'd also include some of Owen Smith's ideas like a 1% wealth tax to fund the NHS, scrap zer hours contracts, and so on.

I agree we don't need Trident since the end of the Cold War ! Only USA France and UK have inipendant nuclear arms in NATO both USA and France would be very angry if we were seen to be not committed to our contribution to the defence of Western Europe .There is also a big chance that if Trump wins ,the US will return to its position prior to the 2nd World War and leave Europe to look after itself, also Trump is saying things that Hitler would have said had he been campaigning in the USA election. So perhaps on that basis we still need a inipendant nuclear weapon ,though I agree it is highly unlikely we would ever need to use it. You can also say we are more likely to be at risk of terrorist using a dirty bomb and then who do you use Trident on. We are now committed to Trident and I agree 50 billion could be better spent in an increasingly uncertain future, but in the very unlikely circumstance of the chance we may still need it perhaps keeping it was the right choice ! Who would be a politician I am glad I don't have to make these choices

[cpwigan]

The problem is if you asked the nation to vote on Trident, the overwhelming majority would vote to retain it.

A much smaller less important issue to Britain but vital to Cumbria is that Trident / BNFL Etc whilst not the most desired industries are truly vital to Cumbria.

[nellywelly]

Good post above Morley. As you probably guessed, I'm very disillusioned at the Labour, which I might add, I have voted all my life and a past member.
I personally think it's dead in the water now and the biggest opposition will come from SNP with an independence agenda.
Dark times ahead!?!

A lot of us feel as disillusioned, but we live in a time of huge change. Social media is weakening the grip of the press barons - who'd have ever thought that a Bernie Saunders, a socialist, would do as well as he did in America? Momentum and the surge in Labour Party membership has tapped into the same vein.

I'm not saying that everything that emerges will be beneficial or even sensible, but change is possible more than it was 20, or even 10 years ago.

Going to the electorate as watered-down Tories is not going to cut it IMO.[/quot

Bernie Saunders would not be classed in this country as a socialist ! He would be classed as a liberal , in the USA anyone with left of centre views is a communist. Their 2 main party's are both right wing with the Democrats just a tad more to the centre. The Wilson government was seen as neo communist by most of their politicians and though never proved there was plans for a military takeover supported by the US. The US is run by big business and no one who is truly independent stands a chance of winning the presidency, Bernie Saunders never had a chance of winning the nomination of the Democrats, because he is seen as some left wing socialist by big business ,though as I have said he is a liberal with right of centre views which to the Americans seem reactionary

[morley pie eater]

Good post above Morley. As you probably guessed, I'm very disillusioned at the Labour, which I might add, I have voted all my life and a past member.
I personally think it's dead in the water now and the biggest opposition will come from SNP with an independence agenda.
Dark times ahead!?!

A lot of us feel as disillusioned, but we live in a time of huge change. Social media is weakening the grip of the press barons - who'd have ever thought that a Bernie Saunders, a socialist, would do as well as he did in America? Momentum and the surge in Labour Party membership has tapped into the same vein.

I'm not saying that everything that emerges will be beneficial or even sensible, but change is possible more than it was 20, or even 10 years ago.

Going to the electorate as watered-down Tories is not going to cut it IMO.[/quot

Bernie Saunders would not be classed in this country as a socialist ! He would be classed as a liberal , in the USA anyone with left of centre views is a communist. Their 2 main party's are both right wing with the Democrats just a tad more to the centre. The Wilson government was seen as neo communist by most of their politicians and though never proved there was plans for a military takeover supported by the US. The US is run by big business and no one who is truly independent stands a chance of winning the presidency, Bernie Saunders never had a chance of winning the nomination of the Democrats, because he is seen as some left wing socialist by big business ,though as I have said he is a liberal with right of centre views which to the Americans seem reactionary

Agreed. My point, though, wasn't that Saunders is a socialist, rather that it would have been totally unthinkable until this year that he could go so far. The same could be said for Trump, but to a lesser extent since the US has generally been further right than us.