keptinthedarkfans wrote:I to agree no need to apologise for having an opinion that differs. You have in no way offended me. But your opinion on Ben being a thug is a bit puzzling when your hero was Skerrett who went out every game looking for some one to have a scrap with and we all loved it. Thats why I disagree and think your remark was out of order. But respect your opinion after all it's a forum.
I see. I could have phrased that much better. The line I was trying to draw was that I don't recall any competition we lost because of Skerrett's thuggery. I only mentioned that I loved watching him play because someone else mentioned it. I love watching McIllorum play, who is as effectively dirty a player as you will see. I have no problem with dirty players and dirty play, save where it is big man on much smaller man and when it costs the club overall.
Happy to take back "cowardly thug" and rely on the effect on the club of his actions.
Though, as I appear to be in a hole, maybe I should stop digging...
Is Mickey Macs dirty play though, because is he not smaller than most and therefore making him brave not cowardly?
Plus I believe MM is far from a dirty player and will front up to ANYONE!!
'If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them.' - Wayne Bennett
Exiled wiganer do not fret over any post. Your own opinion is always correct at the time. However with hindsight I think we have all had instances were we would like to have the chance to go back and edit a post. You have merely expressed your views on a forum, if it upsets people then tough, that's what forums are all about.
p.s. flower's gonna get yer.
Exiled Wiganer wrote:I don't mean to rile anyone, and would be happy to say to Flower's face that his actions caused us to lose one Grand Final and could have made this season more difficult.
Who knows, one day I may get the chance to do so.
It is true that the 2 big match incidents were on much smaller players. That is a matter of fact, not opinion.
I want the club to do as well as it can do, and I don't mind being the sole person who holds the opinion that we are better off without Flower.
It will not cause me to skip a beat in supporting the team. Tbh, I didn't think it was that controversial a position to take.
I apologise unreservedly for any offence caused to my fellow Wiganers in the way I expressed my views.
Don't apologise for having an opinion although calling him a cowardly thug was a little harsh in my opinion.
I actually totally disagree with you however about flower and his antics and considering you like to point out facts, is it a fact that he cost us a GF and nearly another big game?
That's a very good point. You're right. The only facts are that he was sent off in both games, and both the people hit were much smaller. The rest is inference and opinion. I hope I have also not attacked anyone else's opinion in stating this view - I don't recall doing so, but am sorry if I have done.
It's never the size of the dog in the fight EW, Micky Mac will tell you that.
Hohia deserved some retaliation for his forearm into a players face, maybe not to the extent that Benny continued on with his second punch.
I'd hazard a guess that Benny's no Coward either, he picks his weight as Ashton Simms won't venture too close with his cheap shots on him and there's few bigger cheap shot merchants in RL than Simms.
cherry.pie wrote:I think 2 matches is fair enough. I don't think it was malicious but that doesn't mean it wasn't reckless and worthy of a ban. He did raise the forearm and he did make contact with the head, even if it was secondary contact.
To me it seemed like he was trying to put pressure on the kicker but didn't know whether he was going for a charge down or a tackle and so clumsily clattered into him.
I agree its a direct contact to the head not deliberate.
Problem I have is that LH got away with it in the GF. we got Westwood elbow in the eye of Green 2 match ban. Both were deliberate contact to the head unlike Flowers.
RFL as far as I am concerned never gives us the same advantage as others get. 2 game ban is fair for the challenge problem is others have got less for doing worse.
That's what I was going to say, our team seems to be punished a lot harsher than if another teams player committed the same offence, just doesn't add up.
Exiled Wiganer wrote:I appreciate I am a lone voice on this, but the facts are that Flower lost us one Grand Final and in a very important game nearly lead to us having a much harder route to another. If we get there it will be despite him. By any measure that makes him a liability.
I love hard men - Skerrett was one of my favourite players - but they would show they were hard by picking on people their own size and had enough sense to show discipline in big games. Flower has shown himself to be a cowardly thug again and the club simply cannot afford the risk he will do so again.
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I think that is a very harsh criticism on Ben & I, for one disagree with that description wholeheartedly!
+1
+1 cowardly is making a comment like that when theirs no way you would say it to him.
I think it was a Prop forwards attempt to charge down. Normally it's a flying half back, winger or centre that have the speed to rush a kick down, and therefore have more skill and ability to carry this out. A prop is usually too slow, too tired and further back in the defensive line to regularly attempt charge downs - I can't remember ever Flower doing this ? Therefore, he's not got the technique to correct it in a fraction of seconds, found himself in a sort of no mans land and out of his depth, and made some sort of nondescript tackle, not really knowing much else how to handle the moment ?
