Wigan v Saints

[butt monkey]

Also what does flower bring to the team? He seems very ineffective these days

More to the point, what does Frank Paul cotton-wool ball bring to the team? He stops when hitting the advantage line and is easily the worst player defensively. Please take note how many tries are scored from or by an initial break from opposition running past him

[Wigan_forever1985]

Must admit I'm disappointed with fpn thought he would be top prop in the league but he's gone backwards

Tautai though is playing out his skin atm!

[DaveO]

We got a stroke of luck with Amor getting sent off (it shouldn't have been a red, unless the refs have been given a new directive in the past week) ....

I wondered when this would get mentioned. It was a straight red any day of the week and Armor new it. He knew he was off before the ref did. You can play it back slow motion and argue his arm hit the ball first​ but that ignores the swinging arm and what swinging an arm means as regards intent.

At normal speed the ref had no option but to send him off. No need for any new directive as the ref will have seen a swinging arm to the head. Armor can have no complaints and simply should not have swung his arm.

[Kittwazzer]

Must admit I'm disappointed with fpn thought he would be top prop in the league but he's gone backwards

Tautai though is playing out his skin atm!

I've always been a big fan of Tautai. Never seen him give less than 100% in a game and you can't ask for more than that!

[DaveO]

Must admit I'm disappointed with fpn thought he would be top prop in the league but he's gone backwards

Tautai though is playing out his skin atm!

I agree. I thought FPN added something missing when he arrived last season and was instrumental in the improvement in the teams form that took us to a GF win. With an off season I was expecting him to be a real Craig Smith type menace to the opposition but this is not the case.

Tautai is playing well, the best of the props perhaps but he's the only one of the senior props hitting the straps. Clubb, Flower and FPN are not and our pack has been beaten in recent weeks pretty easily as a result against bigger teams than Saints. Sutton has done well and should have no trouble keeping his place if these three don't buck up.

[adiddy]

Really chuffed with the victory today, but what's been bugging me so far this season, which was jumped on by the stains a few times today is when the two wingers drop back, sometimes on the fourth tackle. Saints with a man less created an overlap on us a few times, so the question for me is, is this tactic really necessary when it's obviously being spotted by other teams as a potential weakness?!!



Matt

[fozzieskem]

Ohh that was hard work that one,but confidence bound to have been hit a little bit following the 3 defeats,can't help but feel young Davies needs a game off for rest he didnt look anywhere near his best today.

The main issue for me is the props both FPN,who simply has gone backwards this season and Flower arent hitting the form they should be capable of,Tautai by a long way the best of the props at the moment,if the others performed as well as he is doing there wouldnt be an issue.

Still a good result against an average Saints side.

Not sure either wether Amor should have got a red card watched it on Sky a few times now and every time i think differently about it.

[DaveO]

I wondered when this would get mentioned. It was a straight red any day of the week and Armor new it. He knew he was off before the ref did. You can play it back slow motion and argue his arm hit the ball first​ but that ignores the swinging arm and what swinging an arm means as regards intent.

At normal speed the ref had no option but to send him off. No need for any new directive as the ref will have seen a swinging arm to the head. Armor can have no complaints and simply should not have swung his arm.

I disagree. If you've ever listened to BBC Radio Manchester for RL Extra they used to have a segment called ref's rule where they clarified incidents from previous matches. All the officials have come out with the same interpretation; that direct contact with the head results in a red card and that if initial contact is with the ball or chest then it just results in a penalty. Not only that, but the disciplinary committee have also been consistent with this. High tackles that hit the shoulder/ball first are given as NFA or penalty sufficient while direct contact to the head is cited. Hence the comment about there being a new directive.

I agree with the second part though. I don't think Thaler can be criticised for showing the red card, especially when he was dropped and heavily criticised for not sending off Brett Ferres against Leeds. Apparently the ref isn't allowed to ask the video ref for assistance so he had to make both judgements based on what he saw in real time.

In real time you can't criticise him for sending off Amor because it's almost impossible to be certain where the initial point of contact was. No doubt he'd have help from his assistant who presumably confirmed it.

That is my entire point though. I should probably have been clearer but the ref saw it in real time and everyone in the stadium - including the Saints fans even looking at the replay will have thought a red was warranted.

Given the way he reacted I am sure the player was expecting it also.

It reminds me of when Lockers was sent off. Coincidentally it was almost in the exact same spot on the pitch. I don't think either player intended to headhunt the opposition player but they made a mess of the tackle and the ref saw what he saw. Red card results.

It was poor tackle technique from Amor though, and there was obviously a risk that a challenge like that would risk hitting the ball and rising up to the head. For me the decision to allow sin bins for high tackles should specifically be to deal with challenges like that, where the initial contact is legal but the technique is careless or reckless.

Can't see how that can work. It requires the ref to make a judgement we can only make via a slow motion replay.

Today it would mean Thaler could be criticised for not spotting the arm hit the ball first ignoring the real time view he had.

It will be interesting to see how the disciplinary deal with it. As I've said, they've never banned for tackles like that before, but I can't say I'd be disappointed if they started doing so, and if refs started punishing them more harshly.

For me, I'd rather have a situation where officials are willing to use the red card and occasionally use it harshly than having sin bins for serious foul play just in case they get it wrong.

Would not be surprised if (depending if it is allowed) he gets sending off sufficient. If he did I'd have no complaints. The Wigan player wasn't taken out of the match or the game for weeks injured and Wigan benefited as opposed to the teams Saints play next. What riles fans is the offence isn't punished by a sending off at the time and id recognised as an offence later other teams benefit. I'd sooner a stricter in-game policing myself.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Also what does flower bring to the team? He seems very ineffective these days

More to the point, what does Frank Paul cotton-wool ball bring to the team? He stops when hitting the advantage line and is easily the worst player defensively. Please take note how many tries are scored from or by an initial break from opposition running past him

Based on this season's form we need two new props, FPN looks like he wants to be back in Aus and Clubb is struggling badly after last season's injury. Mind you, Douglas makes them look like world beaters.

[DaveO]

Also what does flower bring to the team? He seems very ineffective these days

More to the point, what does Frank Paul cotton-wool ball bring to the team? He stops when hitting the advantage line and is easily the worst player defensively. Please take note how many tries are scored from or by an initial break from opposition running past him

Based on this season's form we need two new props, FPN looks like he wants to be back in Aus and Clubb is struggling badly after last season's injury. Mind you, Douglas makes them look like world beaters.

The thought crossed my mind if FPN was a bit homesick. Hope not because as I said last season he looked to be just what we needed.

As I said before today's game apart from Sutton we have had no real injuries to the props and Tauati aside they have got beaten regularly.