Wigan_forever1985 wrote:As with hunt on the radio the other day the tories are simply relating every question to the answer "strong leader round the table" "stable government" "best deal for Britian in the Brexit negotiations" its a brilliant idea by the Tories and yet again Labour are just flapping about.
Brexit seems to be the only thing people care about so the Tories know they only need to win the vote on this issue they arent even bothering with anything else so they are all repeating the same 3 lines, and it works its called "illusory truth effect". Essentially if you say something enough people start accepting it as true because the re-iteration breeds a comfort in our brains, we process the information less therefore challenge it less with our conscious mind resulting in us accepting it as a truth.
Labour are trying to fight the election on none brexit issues, problem is people have proven already that no-one cares about the truth or the actual issues its all about the big bad EU.
Lets just pause to consider your reference to "the illusory truth effect" a concept that's been discussed in the cognitive sciences since 1977 I believe Simply put it suggests if you lie repeatedly eventually some people will come to believe it is true. So far your reference to it is sound. Now let's apply it to what the Tories are saying.
1. We need a strong leader at the negotiating table. Is this true or false?
I would agree.
2. We need a Stable government going into the Brexit negotiations
True or false. ?
I would say true.
3. We need the Best deal for the UK.
Do we?
I would say Yes.
None of the above stated aims above are lies.
You stated "truth illusory effect" has no application in the cases 1)to3) in fact the alleged(effect) in its use regarding the said cases is itself an illusion. The reititions above are not repeated to make a truth out of a lie but I suggest to concentrate people's minds on what the government considers important.
3.
As SJ says those are legitimate needs going into Brexit talks.
My point was none of those claims made apply to those saying them.
May, like Cameron before her, doesn't know what she thinks.
One minute she's saying we are far better in the EU than leaving.
Now she's saying we are better off out and her unwavering mind is the one to lead us.
She's isn't up to it! Davies, Fox and Johnson are nowhere near the calibre of people we need in there.
Some of these EU people have been doing negotiations like this for over 20 years. With their experience they run our lot ragged.
The 1.26m referendum majority will have gone by 2019 due to Anno Domini, so it will be interesting to see how May gets out of the mess when the Leave majority has disappeared before her eyes.She's changed her mind on everything else so why not on a 2nd referendum?
Wigan_forever1985 wrote:As with hunt on the radio the other day the tories are simply relating every question to the answer "strong leader round the table" "stable government" "best deal for Britian in the Brexit negotiations" its a brilliant idea by the Tories and yet again Labour are just flapping about.
Brexit seems to be the only thing people care about so the Tories know they only need to win the vote on this issue they arent even bothering with anything else so they are all repeating the same 3 lines, and it works its called "illusory truth effect". Essentially if you say something enough people start accepting it as true because the re-iteration breeds a comfort in our brains, we process the information less therefore challenge it less with our conscious mind resulting in us accepting it as a truth.
Labour are trying to fight the election on none brexit issues, problem is people have proven already that no-one cares about the truth or the actual issues its all about the big bad EU.
Lets just pause to consider your reference to "the illusory truth effect" a concept that's been discussed in the cognitive sciences since 1977 I believe Simply put it suggests if you lie repeatedly eventually some people will come to believe it is true. So far your reference to it is sound. Now let's apply it to what the Tories are saying.
1. We need a strong leader at the negotiating table. Is this true or false?
I would agree.
2. We need a Stable government going into the Brexit negotiations
True or false. ?
I would say true.
3. We need the Best deal for the UK.
Do we?
I would say Yes.
None of the above stated aims above are lies.
You stated "truth illusory effect" has no application in the cases 1)to3) in fact the alleged(effect) in its use regarding the said cases is itself an illusion. The reititions above are not repeated to make a truth out of a lie but I suggest to concentrate people's minds on what the government considers important.
3.
The statements you made there miss the key point though that the tories are saying they are the only ones who can offer said 3 things thats the "illusory Truth"
The fact is they cant no one can, whomever takes on the eu in these talks will lose, the uk will come out worse no matter what but the Tories are pinning all their hopes on pretending that if they are in charge we will come out smelling of roses.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
Wiganer Ted wrote:As SJ says those are legitimate needs going into Brexit talks.
My point was none of those claims made apply to those saying them.
May, like Cameron before her, doesn't know what she thinks.
One minute she's saying we are far better in the EU than leaving.
Now she's saying we are better off out and her unwavering mind is the one to lead us.
She's isn't up to it! Davies, Fox and Johnson are nowhere near the calibre of people we need in there.
Some of these EU people have been doing negotiations like this for over 20 years. With their experience they run our lot ragged.
The 1.26m referendum majority will have gone by 2019 due to Anno Domini, so it will be interesting to see how May gets out of the mess when the Leave majority has disappeared before her eyes.She's changed her mind on everything else so why not on a 2nd referendum?
We seem to be on the same page re 1) to 3). That's all I was referring to. Your clarification that the government are not the capable or carrying out1) to3) is a completely different propersition to your initial post. Your clarification in the above post doesn't require the assertion of the"truth.illusory effect but a judgement of prospective voters. Obviously the Tories believe they fulfil 1) to 3) whereas the Labour Party don't
If one considers 1) to 3) you can make your own judgement on each point there are no lies just matters to be considered. It is possible that on reflecting on points 1)to3) one could,as I think you would,decide a Labour government be more capable of running the country and negotiating Brexit.
The issue i have is that the Tories are acting like we have a say in the Brexit deal we will ironically be largely dictated to how we exit by the EU the very thing people "thought" they were voting against.
You cannot have a say on the direction of a ship from the passenger deck, and that's exactly what we are now a passenger in all of this. We may be able to claim the odd small victory but we will be largely told what we will get and more importantly how much it will cost to get it.
But yet again i expect people to start harking back to "get our country back" without actually questioning when (with the exception of Finland, Bulgaria, Malta, Denmark and Ireland) We buy in value more goods from every other EU country than they do off us, we arent an absolute sitting duck
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
The points I will make is " We need a strong leader at the negotiating table " the people doing the real business will be civil servants not May.
" We need a stable government " this present government has only been in office a matter of months with plenty of dissenters within their own ranks.
As I have said before Labour have had 2 years to sort themselves out but appear to be still failing, all very depressing
Rochdale Warrior wrote:The points I will make is " We need a strong leader at the negotiating table " the people doing the real business will be civil servants not May.
" We need a stable government " this present government has only been in office a matter of months with plenty of dissenters within their own ranks.
As I have said before Labour have had 2 years to sort themselves out but appear to be still failing, all very depressing
Labour died with John Smith
Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make suggestions about what you and someone else should do. Let's is NOT a promise
SJ, no I don't think Labour could do any better than the Tories in negotiations with the EU.
As for Lies, those that I heard were at local "Leave" meetings I went to and their claims about what would happen if we left the EU were just never ever going to happen. Those spouting such nonsense knew what they were saying was blatently untrue.
We all saw pictures of the red bus suggesting £350m a week would be allocated to the NHS, that was also untrue and those who were responsible knew it would never happen.
Long way to go in the election yet.
Yes America is doing just fine with the fool in charge aren't they?
Quite how anyone fell for the bus is beyond me,it was a flat lie,let's call it what it a disgraceful trick that any party should have been ashamed of pulling,but given it was the unelected Farage doing the grandstanding well you cam see why it happened.
Labour are as usual missing the point,this election is about Brexit but waffle boy is trying to run a normal campaign it simply won't work.
And my my if anyone really thinks May,who changes her mind more than her clothes is a strong leader has clearly forgotten Thatcher,the strongest leader regardless of what you thought of her policies,this country had since the war.
