Josie surely the buck stops with SW, I do agree that IL is the boss but that does not mean that Wane has to agree with him especially taking into consideration our form this season.We are in a bit of a mess at the moment and there needs to be change whether it be a new coach or a change of policy.josie andrews wrote:I know that, but every one always blames Wane!shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:That's true Josie but look at IFL's record, when he took over we couldn't win an argument.josie andrews wrote: It is Mr Lenegan that has stated numerous times that he would like a team full of Wigan born players or players that have come through the academy system, not just Shaun Wane. He is just reiterating what his boss is telling him.
Fridays game v Giants
Re: Fridays game v Giants
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Wintergreen
- Posts: 1665
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:13 pm
Re: Fridays game v Giants
The "fault" may well be that IL wants a team full of Wiganers or won't put his hand in his pocket and buy X, Y or Z player.
However, that is that. The reality is that within those constraints Wane is struggling at the moment. Big time.
However, that is that. The reality is that within those constraints Wane is struggling at the moment. Big time.
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fozzieskem
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am
Re: Fridays game v Giants
The silence from the top this season has been deafening,giving the impression that Wane looks like Nero fiddling while rome is burning,hes only missing the Errea made sheet but that'll come in november time 
.
I dont think at this point in time a change of coach will do much but mistakes have been made,FPN and Tommy two glarng ones that need to be addressed quickly,the fingers crossed approach hasnt worked all season and dont see it working now.
.I dont think at this point in time a change of coach will do much but mistakes have been made,FPN and Tommy two glarng ones that need to be addressed quickly,the fingers crossed approach hasnt worked all season and dont see it working now.
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Wigan_forever1985
- Posts: 6594
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm
Re: Fridays game v Giants
Ive said before i think with Wane and IFL we have had a bit of the perfect storm.
IFL is a businessman its in his interest to run the club as cheaply as possible as long as we can compete there is no reason to "overpay" for a team that dominates and regrettably the league is set up in such as way domination is not a requirement of success, you can be very very poor and still end up with silverware case and point us and the CC and WCC this year.
It stands to reason that the best way to achieve a cheap team is to use the considerable talent pool available to us, Marshall has been good enough to get into most teams this year for example and you only have to look across the league and most teams are fielding 3-5 of our cast offs
Were i think the problem lies with Wane is his ego, i dont think is pushing back on the penny pinching because he believes he is good enough to turn the likes of ISA into the next SBW. He is "confident" in his only ability to mould project players meaning when we do buy in we invariably buy in cheaper players that Wane thinks he can improve.
However Wanes ability is not inline with his ego so we have ended up with a large squad of middle of the road players. We do have some class but its more by chance than design, apart from Bateman we havent brought in any class - point to tomkins and Tommy but again the move was of benefit to them more than us. Escare has been a shrewd signing but players like ISA are just bog standard.
The annoying thing is that we dont need much, a real powerhouse prop, a class centre and we are already well on the way.
As coaches helping wane have left the reliance on them has become more apparent but again they havent been replaced probably because Wane thinks he doesnt need help
IFL is a businessman its in his interest to run the club as cheaply as possible as long as we can compete there is no reason to "overpay" for a team that dominates and regrettably the league is set up in such as way domination is not a requirement of success, you can be very very poor and still end up with silverware case and point us and the CC and WCC this year.
It stands to reason that the best way to achieve a cheap team is to use the considerable talent pool available to us, Marshall has been good enough to get into most teams this year for example and you only have to look across the league and most teams are fielding 3-5 of our cast offs
Were i think the problem lies with Wane is his ego, i dont think is pushing back on the penny pinching because he believes he is good enough to turn the likes of ISA into the next SBW. He is "confident" in his only ability to mould project players meaning when we do buy in we invariably buy in cheaper players that Wane thinks he can improve.
However Wanes ability is not inline with his ego so we have ended up with a large squad of middle of the road players. We do have some class but its more by chance than design, apart from Bateman we havent brought in any class - point to tomkins and Tommy but again the move was of benefit to them more than us. Escare has been a shrewd signing but players like ISA are just bog standard.
The annoying thing is that we dont need much, a real powerhouse prop, a class centre and we are already well on the way.
As coaches helping wane have left the reliance on them has become more apparent but again they havent been replaced probably because Wane thinks he doesnt need help
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure
Re: Fridays game v Giants
And what happens if the new powerhouse prop and centre get injured and spend 3/4 of the season in the treatment room?Wigan_forever1985 wrote:Ive said before i think with Wane and IFL we have had a bit of the perfect storm.
IFL is a businessman its in his interest to run the club as cheaply as possible as long as we can compete there is no reason to "overpay" for a team that dominates and regrettably the league is set up in such as way domination is not a requirement of success, you can be very very poor and still end up with silverware case and point us and the CC and WCC this year.
It stands to reason that the best way to achieve a cheap team is to use the considerable talent pool available to us, Marshall has been good enough to get into most teams this year for example and you only have to look across the league and most teams are fielding 3-5 of our cast offs
Were i think the problem lies with Wane is his ego, i dont think is pushing back on the penny pinching because he believes he is good enough to turn the likes of ISA into the next SBW. He is "confident" in his only ability to mould project players meaning when we do buy in we invariably buy in cheaper players that Wane thinks he can improve.
However Wanes ability is not inline with his ego so we have ended up with a large squad of middle of the road players. We do have some class but its more by chance than design, apart from Bateman we havent brought in any class - point to tomkins and Tommy but again the move was of benefit to them more than us. Escare has been a shrewd signing but players like ISA are just bog standard.
The annoying thing is that we dont need much, a real powerhouse prop, a class centre and we are already well on the way.
As coaches helping wane have left the reliance on them has become more apparent but again they havent been replaced probably because Wane thinks he doesnt need help
Making assertions about Wanes ego is fine as long as you know him personally but if you don't, then it's a bit rich imo.
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Wormburner
- Posts: 514
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:33 pm
Re: Fridays game v Giants
Time to pull out all the stops, splash the cash and bring back Edwards & Farrell also a powerhouse prop, a top centre and a replacement for Lulu as he is no #7
Let's is a contraction of “let us.” You use it to make suggestions about what you and someone else should do. Let's is NOT a promise
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No straw damn us
- Posts: 2067
- Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:12 am
Re: Fridays game v Giants
Since Wane took over as head coach in 2012
1 League Leaders Shield
1 Challenge Cup
1 WCC
4 Grand Finals (2 won, 2 lost)
A record comparable to any other coach in that same time frame.
This year despite the injuries 3rd in the tries scored. I think some people have an agenda against him for whatever reason.
As for IL people have short memories of how far the club has come since he took over. How much of his OWN money do you think he has put into the club in that time. Just check the clubs accounts online and you will see.
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0017 ... financials
You will probably need to create an account to view the figures, it's free to do so.
1 League Leaders Shield
1 Challenge Cup
1 WCC
4 Grand Finals (2 won, 2 lost)
A record comparable to any other coach in that same time frame.
This year despite the injuries 3rd in the tries scored. I think some people have an agenda against him for whatever reason.
As for IL people have short memories of how far the club has come since he took over. How much of his OWN money do you think he has put into the club in that time. Just check the clubs accounts online and you will see.
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0017 ... financials
You will probably need to create an account to view the figures, it's free to do so.
Re: Fridays game v Giants
Half the story. Have not looked at the accounts.No straw damn us wrote:Since Wane took over as head coach in 2012
1 League Leaders Shield
1 Challenge Cup
1 WCC
4 Grand Finals (2 won, 2 lost)
A record comparable to any other coach in that same time frame.
This year despite the injuries 3rd in the tries scored. I think some people have an agenda against him for whatever reason.
As for IL people have short memories of how far the club has come since he took over. How much of his OWN money do you think he has put into the club in that time. Just check the clubs accounts online and you will see.
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0017 ... financials
You will probably need to create an account to view the figures, it's free to do so.
Up to 2013/2014 Wane played the best rugby I had seen us do in the SL era. Now he serves up 80% crap. Take us from 2014 on and we have got 3 GF with 1 win. Though tbh unlucky not to win the 3. Please do not go we are the world champions 2017 that game was nothing more than a charity shield. Nice to win but means very little tbh.
Problem is are people happy with the record from 2014 and this season we have gone backwards. Like I said last week I will hold judgement if Wane should carry on by the end of this season. Injuries are no longer an excuse and we won last week against a very poor Wire side by 1 point and had a draw against the giants who missed their best player.
If Wane is here next season he has to stop brining players back due to loyalty none have worked out (Burgess the only one I would say that has done very much ok if on the wing and Sam up to Wakey last season). Joel nowhere near the player he was and TL poorer than Smith who had decent game management and turned a close losing drawing game into a win. That decision of letting Smith go and get TL back has cost us games this season.
We need a quality centre if Gelling is out injured any longer and we are screaming for a good no 7. Hopefully we can get Morgan Escare back next season and that would get Sam to 7 with Williams at 6.
Somewhere along the line from now to mid September we will have the answer if the results this season was injuries related or something else. Then we will know if Wane should be here or not.
Re: Fridays game v Giants
I'd say injuries have definitely defined this season, after all you can only use the tools your dealt with. And as you say, Gimble, we got "a draw against the giants who missed their best player". Well,if that's a valid point, and it has its merits, then we've been missing up to 14 players in a certain string of matches this season. In fact, some posters on here were saying they would consider attending what were "virtual" Academy line-ups.
We went to Huddersfield and there was a definite upform from Warrington, and obviously pre-Leigh. The defence is far stronger though Burgess is an out and out winger, and never a Centre (same can be said of Davies), Sam is getting some form back and is an influence to the side as a whole. He took all the tricky Brough bombs and has added to the attack.
Our main problem in defence is dealing with kicks, both grubber and bombs, were size/experience is costing tries. But that's a sign our defence is getting back to normal, if teams believe kicks are the way to get through us.
As for Wane's comments, I believe people read too much into coach's after match ramblings (in all sports) - how many say they've not seen incidents so can't comment and even in adversity they are always psychologically positive and looking forward to the next game. To be negative would leave a bad defeatist attitude and give a bleak outlook to fans and possibly the players - just be too uncomfortable and awkward and the media would have a field day with that attitude. I just take all those comments with a pinch of salt.
Much of the season now depends on that form continuing to get better, including planning for next season when I believe TL is going onto the coaching side, so that area needs looking at, as well as a prop to replace FPN (who I think's going back to Oz), plus strengthening at centre, to cover for injuries arising there again. As for Wane, better judge at the end of the year but in fairness the majority of fans at the games haven't resorted to booing or abuse of either him or the players, as happened to previous coaches in the past. Most seem to comprehend the nature of this season.
We went to Huddersfield and there was a definite upform from Warrington, and obviously pre-Leigh. The defence is far stronger though Burgess is an out and out winger, and never a Centre (same can be said of Davies), Sam is getting some form back and is an influence to the side as a whole. He took all the tricky Brough bombs and has added to the attack.
Our main problem in defence is dealing with kicks, both grubber and bombs, were size/experience is costing tries. But that's a sign our defence is getting back to normal, if teams believe kicks are the way to get through us.
As for Wane's comments, I believe people read too much into coach's after match ramblings (in all sports) - how many say they've not seen incidents so can't comment and even in adversity they are always psychologically positive and looking forward to the next game. To be negative would leave a bad defeatist attitude and give a bleak outlook to fans and possibly the players - just be too uncomfortable and awkward and the media would have a field day with that attitude. I just take all those comments with a pinch of salt.
Much of the season now depends on that form continuing to get better, including planning for next season when I believe TL is going onto the coaching side, so that area needs looking at, as well as a prop to replace FPN (who I think's going back to Oz), plus strengthening at centre, to cover for injuries arising there again. As for Wane, better judge at the end of the year but in fairness the majority of fans at the games haven't resorted to booing or abuse of either him or the players, as happened to previous coaches in the past. Most seem to comprehend the nature of this season.
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Exiled Wiganer
- Posts: 2710
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 pm
Re: Fridays game v Giants
My take:
- I think we have a really talented and exciting squad. We have played a far more attractive style this year: I think our signings have been astute on the whole - Clubb and Sarginson, Escare and even Gelling have improved dramatically underWane;
- our junior development is fantastic;
- I think that we will click soon - hopefully soon enough to stay in the 8s and show what a great team we are. Already we are improving - 19 points conceded and a
Draw with the form team in the competition shows real potential;
- Sam looks far better to my eyes than he did last year, thank god. I certainly feared the worst;
- I have 2 concerns - the injuries which have blighted us for years leave me no confidence in our back room staff, and I agree that Wane appears from his public comments to be oblivious to problems and have a big ego. Of these, sorting out the injuries would be items 1, 2 and 3 on my agenda if I was IL or Rads.
- I think we have a really talented and exciting squad. We have played a far more attractive style this year: I think our signings have been astute on the whole - Clubb and Sarginson, Escare and even Gelling have improved dramatically underWane;
- our junior development is fantastic;
- I think that we will click soon - hopefully soon enough to stay in the 8s and show what a great team we are. Already we are improving - 19 points conceded and a
Draw with the form team in the competition shows real potential;
- Sam looks far better to my eyes than he did last year, thank god. I certainly feared the worst;
- I have 2 concerns - the injuries which have blighted us for years leave me no confidence in our back room staff, and I agree that Wane appears from his public comments to be oblivious to problems and have a big ego. Of these, sorting out the injuries would be items 1, 2 and 3 on my agenda if I was IL or Rads.