Shambles

[butt monkey]

The MM or Powell debate will always rumble on for as long as we have a coach who thinks MM cannot play 80 minutes and that Powell is worthy of a spot on the bench when clearly he makes no impact whatsoever coming on as a substitute

Start with one or the other and play them for 80 minute

[Warrior Gilfedder]

Thought about Powell then he is a back up for Mm but it is about time one of them played for the full 80 mins leaving a space for another interchange but it means another forward on the bench not a player that can change a game

You seem to have forgotten last season when Powell played the full 80 for most of the season, something the amazing sainted MM has never done and never will do, take away MM tackling and he would struggle getting a game with Brighouse Rangers, the adoration from fanboys really does my head in at times

Well if you are going to have a pop at MM at least get your facts right. He HAS played 80 minute games and when he has we have looked far better.

It only happens rarely not because he can't do it but because we have a buffoon of a coach who when he has what he considers two hookers available in the squad insists on spelling them. It's another incarnation of the Wane subbing by the clock bollocks.

Wane would have a far better record this season if we only had our first choice 13 as the only fit players then he would not try and think about who to pick and who to sub, including MM.

Fact is though Dave, Powell has walked the walk for a season, MM's 6 or 7 games don't come anywhere near

[thegimble]

Amazing thread blame a lot of players but no one mentions ever since Williams signed his contract his performances are getting worse. Neither of our halves are good enough atm.

And his die hard fans will just roll out he looks injured atm. Same for TL he his offering nothing. It might be our crap attack structure but neither have any idea how to run a last play kick or to make it worse neither wants to kick the ball long as both seem poor at it.

[thegimble]

Amazing thread blame a lot of players but no one mentions ever since Williams signed his contract his performances are getting worse. Neither of our halves are good enough atm.

And his die hard fans will just roll out he looks injured atm. Same for TL he his offering nothing. It might be our crap attack structure but neither have any idea how to run a last play kick or to make it worse neither wants to kick the ball long as both seem poor at it.

Probably because in general Williams is still the one creating the vast majority of our tries (and has more try assists than any other Super League player). Few English halfbacks are consistently good at the age of 22 because Super League doesn't provide the environment where they have to be on top of their game, and raise their game, every week. He's still young and it's still a learning curve. It's only right that people have more patience with him and expect a little bit more from a veteran with so much Super League, NRL and international experience.

But here is the elephant in the room Williams is on more than TL and is 22 not 19 so he should be doing more. He has been playing in SL for 3-4 years. Or is the amount that a player is on only to be thrown at certain ones.

Williams is not proving worth the 2nd Marquee spot.

[DaveO]

You seem to have forgotten last season when Powell played the full 80 for most of the season, something the amazing sainted MM has never done and never will do, take away MM tackling and he would struggle getting a game with Brighouse Rangers, the adoration from fanboys really does my head in at times

Well if you are going to have a pop at MM at least get your facts right. He HAS played 80 minute games and when he has we have looked far better.

It only happens rarely not because he can't do it but because we have a buffoon of a coach who when he has what he considers two hookers available in the squad insists on spelling them. It's another incarnation of the Wane subbing by the clock bollocks.

Wane would have a far better record this season if we only had our first choice 13 as the only fit players then he would not try and think about who to pick and who to sub, including MM.

Fact is though Dave, Powell has walked the walk for a season, MM's 6 or 7 games don't come anywhere near

What do you mean he's walked the walk? He's been picked because we have had no alternative while MM was injured and he gave and gives 100% when he plays but he is still just average.

Powell, one of Wanes mates, being a shoe in for a place in the 17 is part of the overall problem. He's just not that good.

I am not sure what you mean by MM's 6 or 7 games either. He couldn't help Flower breaking his ankle.

[thegimble]

But here is the elephant in the room Williams is on more than TL and is 22 not 19 so he should be doing more. He has been playing in SL for 3-4 years. Or is the amount that a player is on only to be thrown at certain ones.

Williams is not proving worth the 2nd Marquee spot.

Yes, I know, it may seem like double standards, although in my opinion it's more like perspective. If you compare Williams to the rest of the squad he's either first or second most valuable player in terms of what he's done on the pitch this year, even with his poor form.

I'm not saying he's playing well, and it's only my personal opinion, but I don't expect Williams to be a world beater and not have a dip in form because he's signed a big contract. I've seen the young halfbacks who have come through in Super League over recent years and the dips in form they've had and I just don't expect Williams to be consistent yet when pretty much no other young halfback has managed that.
He still has a lot to develop in his game and with halfbacks the development often happens through poor performances and learning from mistakes. 22 is still young for a halfback, particularly for one expected to have such a big impact on a team that is so badly out of form.

I don't think you can expect a young halfback who had some obvious flaws beforehand to become a more consistent player as soon as they sign a big deal. If he is poor next season I'd be more critical, but I've rarely seen a young player who doesn't suffer a dip in form in the early years of their career. Tomkins is probably the only one who comes close. Consistently good performances are generally what separates good young players from the top quality players they become.

He has 2 major problems atm to his development.

Wane - his attack since 2013 has been crap.

TL - Is no organiser and has the worst kicking game of a 7 in SL. Even Moran had a better kick and he was crap at 7. If and its a big if Wane is fired I just hope someone puts Sam to 7 when Morgan returns next season.

If any of the 2 issues I raise is at the club next season then Williams will struggle.

[moto748]

I've said before that if Williams is going to improve his game (and there is plenty of scope), he needs someone better playing alongside him. But I take the point that he's no rookie any more as well. I just watched a stellar performance from Nathan Cleary in a terrific contest against the Warriors, where Shaun Johnson was also near his brilliant best. A match that reminded me how great our game can be. A wonderful hat-trick for Cleary, capped off with a brilliant solo try, plus two try assists. And he just kicked 20 goals in a row. And he's just 19! As the commentators said, what can't he do!




And yes, I've sure he'll have the odd stinker too!

[ian b]

Powell is a good player in my opinion

[moto748]

Powell is a good player in my opinion

I'm not fully convinced, but if so, give him a shot in the halves. He has shown some glimpses occasionally, as in his tidy show-and-go on an otherwise dismal night in Castleford. He could hardly do worse than where we are now.

[old hooker]

Williams is vastly overrated,we do not have a go forward hooker,Gelling is overrated,Isa,Tierney,Bretherton,navarrette just not good enough,Wane needs to go with them.