Re: Are either of our 9's really good enough?

[jobo]

When we brought Tommy back, I thought it was to be as an interchange hooker with MM and Powell would revert back to the halves. Suppose injuries dictated otherwise but in an ideal world think this would have worked better.

[ian.birchall]

We have a loose forward and a hooker neither of whom is capable of playing more than 40/45 minutes.
We are handicapping ourselves before we even kick a ball.
Next season we need to lose both, play Escare at full back, Tomkins to standoff and Williams to no 7 where he played most of his lower age rugby with Leuluai at hooker with MM sold on.
I agree that we seem to be clueless when SOL is off the field but looking at his age, his game time and injuries it is time to bite the bullet and move him out. Gelling to loose forward, fast, big, hand offs, good short passer and replace him with, and I dont know who, a top class goal kicking centre.
If nowt else sign Ratchford and play him as a 3.
Dare I say it but the Whinoes seem to have the forward plan we dont, Signed Myler as scrum half already knowing Burrows/Maguire both leaving with Dwyer as hooker if their aussie goes home.
Oh for the days when Wigan moved players onto Leeds when we could seem their careers winding down, Wane,Stephenson,Hanley and even Gregory.
Speaking of which I thought how small Hanley looked against todays players and his half time chat with Tania was all about me me my and me, still as conceited as ever.

[fozzieskem]

When we brought Tommy back, I thought it was to be as an interchange hooker with MM and Powell would revert back to the halves. Suppose injuries dictated otherwise but in an ideal world think this would have worked better.

I still don't understand what role Tommy was supposed to have in the set up,he's no half back he is a good hooker,but MM was due back and Powell was doing a job so why was he brought back?

It smacked of jobs for the boys,quite how he's remained in the side is hard to fathom at half back he offers very little in that role and I would argue with him there Williams has gone backwards.

There have to be changes next season,the squad looks stale a couple of props,a decent centre time for players who perhaps have been a little cosy to be moved on as well,it's time the club stopped kidding itself it has a great squad,it has a massive one with all these kids coming through but as we have seen get a run of injuries there's very little experience to back the side up.

[LooseHead]

I've always been a MM fan but I have to admit that had we gone through this season with Powell as an 80 minute number 9 like last season I think we'd be in better form. I looked forward to MM coming back because his aggression and competitiveness was second to none UNTIL this year. I can't recall many big hits from him this year, many tines he's been the difference or much else really. For that, Wane gives us 40 mins of him and it flatly doesn't work. Either leave MM on for an 80 and see how he goes with double the time to make an impact or drop him or Powell and put someone different in on the bench.

[butt monkey]

We have a loose forward and a hooker neither of whom is capable of playing more than 40/45 minutes.

Watched MM closely in the opening minutes. Was guilty of a poor miss and then not clamping an offload in the sets leading up to Hull's first try. Was pretty anonymous in his first stint and THAT is where is is supposed to make his mark.

Powell is not an interchange hooker. Never has been. Makes no impact and offers little to what has gone on before. All ready hinted and I all ready commented on in other threads over the months that TL should be coming off the bench as the inter change hooker.

If that means Powell at half or Sam and someone else going into full back, then that change has to be made. Not next season. Now for the rest of the season

Gelling now, for me, is looking a decent second row. That is how he plays. Move him there

As for Lockers, has he an injury we have not been told off? If not, I think this should be his last season. Just doesn't take the ball in as he should and appears to try make up for the creative deficiencies of both Williams and TL, meaning Lockers ends up achieving neither role effectively

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Sorry to be going over ground that has been tread many times before but it's something that continues to bother me in terms of our play this year and last.

I was going to write a long post but I honestly can't be bothered having got half way through as a lot of it has been said before.

So in short, McIlorum has good play from dummy half but is one dimensional, has an inconsistent kicking game, doesn't run with the ball (not always a negative but in in this hemisphere the opportunities are there) and, most importantly, his defence is nowhere near as good as many (including me at times) have suggested. Yes, McIlorum has had some very good games. I think it was the Salford cup game where he was pretty much outstanding throughout. However, those games are rare. He's not consistently one of our best players like Parcell is for Leeds, Houghton for Hull, McShane for Cas, Roby for Saints.

As for Powell, he's a steady player when playing hooker, but he always seems to look like a number 2. Even last season he filled in well but you noticed when McIlorum returned that he wasn't quick around the ruck, didn't really engage defences and was generally a bit bland. A decent stand in but nowhere near one of the better hookers in the league. Last season our defence was outstanding and that meant that despite some weaknesses we managed to do the business. This season he's an interchange hooker and generally doesn't offer any threat. It's similar to Logan Tomkins. He played pretty well for 80 minutes despite not being brilliant but was poor off the bench.

Now lots of people are calling for Powell to play 80 minutes, but generally his play isn't as strong as McIlorum's. Mickey has had more good games and generally plays better while not being outstanding. If we play Powell for 80 minutes we're playing someone who still doesn't look fully comfortable at 9.

So really the question is, are either of our hookers actually good enough? Sure, you can win the league without a top hooker but is that something we're happy to battle against? It makes sense to build the strongest team possible and I just don't see McIlorum or Powell matching the best hookers in Super League.

In the short term, I still think there might be merits in either drafting in Ganson as a more natural hooker to come off the bench (although his defence isn't quite 'Super League ready' in my opinion. He is a very good attacking player though.

Another option would be to address the issue of Leuluai's absolutely atrocious last tackle options and generally poor kicking by moving him to interchange hooker and trying Powell at scrum half. Maybe it wouldn't work, but Leuluai is quick around the ruck at dummy half and good at giving short, sharp passes to props down the middle.

They are certainly not in the same league as the other players you have mentioned. I have high hopes for Ganson, he is a good alround player who needs to be gradually introduced to the rigours of first team rugby. He certainly needs to be playing in a better environment than U19s to improve his defence, which isn't bad but needs to be improved.

[Wiganer Ted]

They appear not good enough because we don't win the floor and givbe them quick ptb.
Our carries out of 10/20 mtr areas are being done by backs who have to take on the oppositions forwards. Not often in a set do our props/13 take the ball up.
Slow PTB where the opposition have dominated the tackle means the dh(9) is going nowhere.

If Waney were to improve this and have our props take up repeated ball and win the tackle and the floor we'd see a different standard from our 9s.
We look a poor team who are playing the wrong game for the type of players we have.
Everyone is suffering including our 9s.

[thegimble]

They appear not good enough because we don't win the floor and givbe them quick ptb.
Our carries out of 10/20 mtr areas are being done by backs who have to take on the oppositions forwards. Not often in a set do our props/13 take the ball up.
Slow PTB where the opposition have dominated the tackle means the dh(9) is going nowhere.

If Waney were to improve this and have our props take up repeated ball and win the tackle and the floor we'd see a different standard from our 9s.
We look a poor team who are playing the wrong game for the type of players we have.
Everyone is suffering including our 9s.

I agree