New York announce plans to create rugby league club

[thegimble]

Great idea. If we carry on with just as we are the game will die and be a semi pro game with no money and no TV. For the first time in years we have a head start on union. RLWC 2025 with hopefully more than 2 full time sides in that continent minimum and 1 at least in SL.

I think its borderline genius the way its been handled especially Toronto. They get into SL and there is a NEW York side division below American ego will not accept that. So hopefully they will splash the cash and push on to SL. Sorry but some sides give nothing and hold the game back. If it was not for Koukash then there would be no marquee players in SL and we would have lost George Williams by now.

Here is where I can see the game moving on from where it is now a poor run pro game to a very good one is that interest in the USA and Canada should boost tv money deals not massively but enough. The game needs to develop at grass roots though and not flash the cash on imports that will not work long term. Just as the American football side NY Cosmos found out and the NASL.

Also in a City of a population of millions there is every chance of generating a niche sport. Even Soccer in the MLS is still a niche sport though Soccer is the biggest past time amongst kids in the country. It does not hold them later on with the mainstream sports getting them in college especially.

I went to watch an Orlando football game in May great stadium and experience. Holds on 25k but great and that would be more than enough to hold a RL side in NY or any of the major cities along the East coast. If RL goes to the West then its game over as that area is mainly Americans and Hispanics.

The way I look at it is that Toronto with 8k in their division has done more than what was needed of them especially with the promotion. If they grow then so does RL in Canada and that is good for us all.

[moto748]

I agree with that. We haven't had a lot of good news in our sport in recent years, and this is a real opportunity.

[jasonnlouise]

It's nice to see so many positive comments on expansion for too long Rugby League has rested on its laurels ,as has been stated we've stolen a march on union for once this could be the making of our great sport. I think what worked with Toronto is they started lower division which gave local fans a winning team which built up interest and a good following if New York do the same the game could take off,also the Canada USA rivalry is potentially marketing genius just imagine them both in Super League in years to come for the magic weekend the interest stateside would be huge.

[Wikimann]

I also think Toronto was a master stroke for utilising the Canadian love of the NHL ice hockey fan out of season. Of the 4 main North American sports brands (NFL,MLB,NBA,NHL) hockey is clearly Canada’s no1 whereas in the US it’s down in 4th place. Appealing to NHL fans in Canada ???????? has really worked as I’ve always thought it would,it probably won’t be that easy in the US. Ice hockey is the one sport other than RL I really like & have always thought was comparable in lots of ways,hard as nails,easy to follow & fast flowing from start to finish with limited rules to work out. Your average Canadian hockey fan loves a few beers before a good old tear up with some serious fiticuffs,plenty of big side smashes into the Perspex,high sticking to the mush & a few powerplay sin bins! Given the right publicity & exposure who wouldn’t want to see Fui fui moi moi level a defender when there’s no maple leafs in action during the off season in the NHL? It’s a natural fit all day long,another stroke of genius by Eric Perez as he had a ready made market of potential easy converts. Union has tried & failed for years in Canada because it’s simply too complex rule wise & too slow for hockey fans to be arsed with. League however is perfect with all the attributes I mentioned being very close to what they’re bred to follow.
The impressive thing I found watching all Toronto games on premier sports,was how many of these fans (6k-7.5k) regularly turned up when other more famous established franchised teams (blue jays,raptors,Toronto F.C.) were also playing at home.
It bodes really well for the future & next season the game against Toulouse in the championship throws up some great continental headlines for RL as a sport,something we’ve always lacked in public perception. 2 huge cities for a start,no disrespect to Wakey v Cas in a derby but ESPN won’t even have heard of that or wish to mention it in North America. Toronto v Toulouse however ????????V???????? Is a whole different matter,not only the major city branding but with Canada’s obvious Quebecquois & shared second language it’s a RL promoters dream fixture!
Clearly this model can be further utilised when any US involvement appears as the Canucks love nothing more than smashing the US in ice hockey at the Olympics. I’d say that’s the perfect fit for a north American RL version of State of Origin ????????
I have a slight leaning to this Canadian concept you may notice,as my old girl & uncles were all brought up for 7yrs in Montreal in the early 60s whilst my grandfather was stationed there with the RAF building the NORAD defences in the arctic.
She still loves hockey & was converted to league when I first watched Wigan back in 84. She can’t fathom RU as ‘its so boring & slow with too many of them big pile ons!’ ???? enuff said!

[Mike]

I think the potential problems with a NY franchise are unrealistic expectations and difficulty raising awareness in a competitive market.

To expect an RL team to become as big a sport as NY Red Bulls in a few years is totally unrealistic. Soccer is the world's biggest sport. RL is not. Getting the US sports public to care even about soccer is an ongoing challenge. If the business plan of this franchise is to achieve a similar support to the Red Bulls they are setting themselves to fail in a couple of years.

The second problem i can see will be the difficulty of getting the US sports market to care about games vs UK teams that they've never heard of at all. They care about their city rivalries. They've never heard of Wigan, let alone Wakefield, Castleford or Huddersfield. If we had London, Paris, Toronto etc as our main teams then maybe you could convince the media this was an event but its always going to be a big challenge getting them to care at all about the major RL sides. Awareness of non-US sports and locations outside the US is about as close to zero as you could imagine.

It seems to me that Canada is far more likely to adopt a sport for the sake of the sport being enjoyable, the US and in particular the major US markets are far less so IMO. You'd have the best chance in a market that has fewer major sporting teams so they could develop a tradition of following an oddball sport specific to their city.

Ambition is great, but this has all the hallmarks of the Gateshead franchise - unrealistic expectations followed by shutting it down in two seasons. That is worse than doing nothing in the market.

BTW The RFU had an international in Boston a year or so ago which sold out. But the premeirship games they brought over here this season struggled to gain an audience. So we're not ahead of the game in the US yet, we're just getting into the game in a different way.

[thegimble]

I think the potential problems with a NY franchise are unrealistic expectations and difficulty raising awareness in a competitive market.

To expect an RL team to become as big a sport as NY Red Bulls in a few years is totally unrealistic. Soccer is the world's biggest sport. RL is not. Getting the US sports public to care even about soccer is an ongoing challenge. If the business plan of this franchise is to achieve a similar support to the Red Bulls they are setting themselves to fail in a couple of years.

The second problem i can see will be the difficulty of getting the US sports market to care about games vs UK teams that they've never heard of at all. They care about their city rivalries. They've never heard of Wigan, let alone Wakefield, Castleford or Huddersfield. If we had London, Paris, Toronto etc as our main teams then maybe you could convince the media this was an event but its always going to be a big challenge getting them to care at all about the major RL sides. Awareness of non-US sports and locations outside the US is about as close to zero as you could imagine.

It seems to me that Canada is far more likely to adopt a sport for the sake of the sport being enjoyable, the US and in particular the major US markets are far less so IMO. You'd have the best chance in a market that has fewer major sporting teams so they could develop a tradition of following an oddball sport specific to their city.

Ambition is great, but this has all the hallmarks of the Gateshead franchise - unrealistic expectations followed by shutting it down in two seasons. That is worse than doing nothing in the market.

BTW The RFU had an international in Boston a year or so ago which sold out. But the premeirship games they brought over here this season struggled to gain an audience. So we're not ahead of the game in the US yet, we're just getting into the game in a different way.

RL took games to the US years ago.

Also there is zero possibility of an US side going into the English domestic union game. That will never happen. Only chance they have is the pro 14 league and that is not all the viable either. Welsh clubs alone would black ball it.

People this time last year was shooting on Toronto not making a go of it. Its that type of thinking and the old boys network that has made RL a bloody boring game to watch with average players in every team. If RL carries on with no new money in the Northern hemisphere it will be a semi pro sport by 2030 at the latest. Even sooner if standards are kept as is.

I agree that Canada could make a bigger go of the game but at least allow the US to try it. After all Toronto are heading in the right direction and its run by a Millionaire and 10 others. For every Gateshead there is a Catalan. Or for every Crusaders there is a Toulouse.

[widdenoldboy]

BTW The RFU had an international in Boston a year or so ago which sold out. But the premeirship games they brought over here this season struggled to gain an audience. So we're not ahead of the game in the US yet, we're just getting into the game in a different way.

Its not that bad of an idea and Boston have had an amateur RL team - Boston 13s - for some years. They play in a league of 12 I think - http://www.usarl.org/competitions/xiiis ... onference/

[Mike]

I think the potential problems with a NY franchise are unrealistic expectations and difficulty raising awareness in a competitive market.

To expect an RL team to become as big a sport as NY Red Bulls in a few years is totally unrealistic. Soccer is the world's biggest sport. RL is not. Getting the US sports public to care even about soccer is an ongoing challenge. If the business plan of this franchise is to achieve a similar support to the Red Bulls they are setting themselves to fail in a couple of years.

The second problem i can see will be the difficulty of getting the US sports market to care about games vs UK teams that they've never heard of at all. They care about their city rivalries. They've never heard of Wigan, let alone Wakefield, Castleford or Huddersfield. If we had London, Paris, Toronto etc as our main teams then maybe you could convince the media this was an event but its always going to be a big challenge getting them to care at all about the major RL sides. Awareness of non-US sports and locations outside the US is about as close to zero as you could imagine.

It seems to me that Canada is far more likely to adopt a sport for the sake of the sport being enjoyable, the US and in particular the major US markets are far less so IMO. You'd have the best chance in a market that has fewer major sporting teams so they could develop a tradition of following an oddball sport specific to their city.

Ambition is great, but this has all the hallmarks of the Gateshead franchise - unrealistic expectations followed by shutting it down in two seasons. That is worse than doing nothing in the market.

BTW The RFU had an international in Boston a year or so ago which sold out. But the premeirship games they brought over here this season struggled to gain an audience. So we're not ahead of the game in the US yet, we're just getting into the game in a different way.

RL took games to the US years ago.

Also there is zero possibility of an US side going into the English domestic union game. That will never happen. Only chance they have is the pro 14 league and that is not all the viable either. Welsh clubs alone would black ball it.

People this time last year was shooting on Toronto not making a go of it. Its that type of thinking and the old boys network that has made RL a bloody boring game to watch with average players in every team. If RL carries on with no new money in the Northern hemisphere it will be a semi pro sport by 2030 at the latest. Even sooner if standards are kept as is.

I agree that Canada could make a bigger go of the game but at least allow the US to try it. After all Toronto are heading in the right direction and its run by a Millionaire and 10 others. For every Gateshead there is a Catalan. Or for every Crusaders there is a Toulouse.

My point is not that we shouldn't try, but that when we do it should be well thought through and have a realistic business plan. The sport is littered with grand ideas that had obvious problems and no actual plan to address them other than optimism and hope.

You mentioned Catalans, but lets not forget that the attempt in Paris failed before they relocated to a more realistic location with a real grass roots RL community. That community doesn't exist in canada or the US on the same scale, so any venture needs at least 5 years of funding built in which assumes pretty much zero revenue in that period. A two year commitment with a business plan that they will have as many fans as NY Red Bulls by year 3-4 doesn't cut it for me.

The Toronto franchise seems at this point to be doing things differently in a different market and, although a big step all at once, seems to have a better hope of success. I just hope when the club isn't making a profit after the 1st season in SL the funding doesn't dry up. Because who is making a profit out of RL at the moment?

[thegimble]

I think the potential problems with a NY franchise are unrealistic expectations and difficulty raising awareness in a competitive market.

To expect an RL team to become as big a sport as NY Red Bulls in a few years is totally unrealistic. Soccer is the world's biggest sport. RL is not. Getting the US sports public to care even about soccer is an ongoing challenge. If the business plan of this franchise is to achieve a similar support to the Red Bulls they are setting themselves to fail in a couple of years.

The second problem i can see will be the difficulty of getting the US sports market to care about games vs UK teams that they've never heard of at all. They care about their city rivalries. They've never heard of Wigan, let alone Wakefield, Castleford or Huddersfield. If we had London, Paris, Toronto etc as our main teams then maybe you could convince the media this was an event but its always going to be a big challenge getting them to care at all about the major RL sides. Awareness of non-US sports and locations outside the US is about as close to zero as you could imagine.

It seems to me that Canada is far more likely to adopt a sport for the sake of the sport being enjoyable, the US and in particular the major US markets are far less so IMO. You'd have the best chance in a market that has fewer major sporting teams so they could develop a tradition of following an oddball sport specific to their city.

Ambition is great, but this has all the hallmarks of the Gateshead franchise - unrealistic expectations followed by shutting it down in two seasons. That is worse than doing nothing in the market.

BTW The RFU had an international in Boston a year or so ago which sold out. But the premeirship games they brought over here this season struggled to gain an audience. So we're not ahead of the game in the US yet, we're just getting into the game in a different way.

RL took games to the US years ago.

Also there is zero possibility of an US side going into the English domestic union game. That will never happen. Only chance they have is the pro 14 league and that is not all the viable either. Welsh clubs alone would black ball it.

People this time last year was shooting on Toronto not making a go of it. Its that type of thinking and the old boys network that has made RL a bloody boring game to watch with average players in every team. If RL carries on with no new money in the Northern hemisphere it will be a semi pro sport by 2030 at the latest. Even sooner if standards are kept as is.

I agree that Canada could make a bigger go of the game but at least allow the US to try it. After all Toronto are heading in the right direction and its run by a Millionaire and 10 others. For every Gateshead there is a Catalan. Or for every Crusaders there is a Toulouse.

My point is not that we shouldn't try, but that when we do it should be well thought through and have a realistic business plan. The sport is littered with grand ideas that had obvious problems and no actual plan to address them other than optimism and hope.

You mentioned Catalans, but lets not forget that the attempt in Paris failed before they relocated to a more realistic location with a real grass roots RL community. That community doesn't exist in canada or the US on the same scale, so any venture needs at least 5 years of funding built in which assumes pretty much zero revenue in that period. A two year commitment with a business plan that they will have as many fans as NY Red Bulls by year 3-4 doesn't cut it for me.

The Toronto franchise seems at this point to be doing things differently in a different market and, although a big step all at once, seems to have a better hope of success. I just hope when the club isn't making a profit after the 1st season in SL the funding doesn't dry up. Because who is making a profit out of RL at the moment?

I agree re Paris it is a union area and a mistake to even go there. Same for the Crusaders wrong part of Wales initially and had an had the albatross on its neck in the correct area.

I see NY struggling but they should have looked for Buffalo, Boston and should have attempted to join in a franchise ala Barcelona with basketball.

I just hope they stay a way from the West Coast.

[Mike]

I just hope they stay a way from the West Coast.

Nowt wrong with the west coast. Except the distance!